[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) smith.kennedy at hp.com
Tue Dec 10 17:30:52 UTC 2013


Does limiting the duration obviate the need for the additions, then?  If the duration is brief, why provide a cancel option?

Smith



On 2013-12-10, at 10:17 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was wrong.
> 
> I agree with Mike and Smith that it's a service-level operation.
> 
> I also agree with Mike that we should not add "identify duration"
> at all.  The identity action should be brief (seconds, not minutes).
> Otherwise, it becomes an annoyance for a shared workgroup
> printer in the modern (barbarian) cubicles style of office.
> 
> Cheers,
>  -  Ira
> 
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy at hp.com> wrote:
> I agree with Mike on this.  If I am a client and communicating with / using IPP Printers hosted on an IPP print server, I would want the Identify-Printer to map to the IPP Printer, which may or may not be implemented as a sub-system of the physical hardware of the print server (as represented by the System Control Service).
> 
> From that cloud discussion the other day, and this topic, I really feel like we need to have pictures, so that people can discuss topics from unambiguous scenarios.  Trying to verbally describe the topology of a graph of edges and vertices can be awfully error prone.
> 
> Smith
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-12-10, at 9:36 AM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ira,
>> 
>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Bill,
>>> 
>>> I agree with you - that's what I was realizing when I wrote my previous note.
>>> Identify-Xxx is a device-level operation.
>> 
>> I disagree, Identify-Xxx is a service-level operation that causes the identification of any physical device(s) associated with that service.  We don't provide device interfaces, just service interfaces...
>> 
>>> BTW - what about conflicts between two different services that receive 
>>> conflicting Identify-Xxx operations (or cancels)?
>> 
>> AFAIK, coordination of subunits between services is implementation-defined behavior.  If one service is using the buzzer then another service has to wait (or error-out) to use it.
>> 
>> IMHO, cancel should only apply to the identification done by that service, not to all services.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> - Ira
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:34 AM, William A Wagner <wamwagner at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Ira,
>>> 
>>> I suggest that what is being identified is the physical device, and that the System Control Service is the proper recipient.
>>> 
>>> Bill Wagner
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: ipp-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:ipp-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Ira McDonald
>>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 5:37 PM
>>> To: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)
>>> Cc: <ipp at pwg.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Hi Smith,
>>> 
>>> Tricky.  The "identify action duration" would be a new attribute (which
>>> would require a revision of JPS3 spec - yuck).
>>> 
>>> Mike's right that IPPSIX is the wrong place to do this - the conformance
>>> 
>>> shouldn't have anything to do with IPPSIX.
>>> 
>>> I also don't think that System Control Service should get into this business
>>> 
>>> - or maybe I'm crazy and that actually is the *right* place?  Should SCS,
>>> 
>>> rather than an individual service, be the target of this device-level operation?
>>> 
>>> Someday, we need a lightweight IPP registration for whole new attributes
>>> 
>>> (in an existing attribute group), I suspect.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> - Ira
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy at hp.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> IMHO, these look fine.  I wonder if the “identify action duration” needs to be covered by something?  Does the System Control Service need to concern itself with this domain?
>>> 
>>> Smith
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2013-12-09, at 12:53 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > All,
>>> >
>>> > During our last Cloud Imaging Model WG meeting, we discussed having the ability to explicitly cancel a previous Identify-Printer operation.  The consensus during that meeting was to add a new "identify-actions" keyword ('cancel') that would cancel any active identification mechanism.
>>> >
>>> > In addition, a new "printer-state-reasons" keyword ('identifying-printer' was proposed, although given the existing 'identify-printer-requested' value I like adding 'identify-printer-active' instead) would be added to allow a Client to discover whether a printer is currently identifying itself using an action other than 'cancel', which by definition stops any active identification and removes the new keyword from the "printer-state-reasons" attribute...
>>> >
>>> > The official registration would look like this:
>>> >
>>> >  Attributes (attribute syntax)
>>> >    Keyword Attribute Value                       Reference
>>> >    -----------------------                       ---------
>>> >  identify-actions (1setOf type2 keyword)         [PWG5100.13]
>>> >    cancel
>>> >
>>> >  printer-state-reasons (1setOf type2 keyword)    [RFC2911]
>>> >    identify-printer-active
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?
>>> >
>>> > (I considered adding this to IPPSIX, but since this has application outside of shared infrastructure/cloud deployments I think we should register it separately...)
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________
>>> > Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > ipp mailing list
>>> > ipp at pwg.org
>>> > https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ipp mailing list
>>> ipp at pwg.org
>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ipp mailing list
>>> ipp at pwg.org
>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________________
>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp at pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> 
> 

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