[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

[IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension

Michael Sweet msweet at apple.com
Tue Dec 10 18:47:46 UTC 2013


Smith,

On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy at hp.com> wrote:
> Does limiting the duration obviate the need for the additions, then?  If the duration is brief, why provide a cancel option?

Currently we provide no guidance for the duration of each identify action, so providing a 'cancel' is a way to force the printer to stop beeping, flashing, etc. regardless of printer configuration by the user/operator/administrator.


> 
> Smith
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-12-10, at 10:17 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I was wrong.
>> 
>> I agree with Mike and Smith that it's a service-level operation.
>> 
>> I also agree with Mike that we should not add "identify duration"
>> at all.  The identity action should be brief (seconds, not minutes).
>> Otherwise, it becomes an annoyance for a shared workgroup
>> printer in the modern (barbarian) cubicles style of office.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>  -  Ira
>> 
>> 
>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy at hp.com> wrote:
>> I agree with Mike on this.  If I am a client and communicating with / using IPP Printers hosted on an IPP print server, I would want the Identify-Printer to map to the IPP Printer, which may or may not be implemented as a sub-system of the physical hardware of the print server (as represented by the System Control Service).
>> 
>> From that cloud discussion the other day, and this topic, I really feel like we need to have pictures, so that people can discuss topics from unambiguous scenarios.  Trying to verbally describe the topology of a graph of edges and vertices can be awfully error prone.
>> 
>> Smith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-12-10, at 9:36 AM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ira,
>>> 
>>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with you - that's what I was realizing when I wrote my previous note.
>>>> Identify-Xxx is a device-level operation.
>>> 
>>> I disagree, Identify-Xxx is a service-level operation that causes the identification of any physical device(s) associated with that service.  We don't provide device interfaces, just service interfaces...
>>> 
>>>> BTW - what about conflicts between two different services that receive 
>>>> conflicting Identify-Xxx operations (or cancels)?
>>> 
>>> AFAIK, coordination of subunits between services is implementation-defined behavior.  If one service is using the buzzer then another service has to wait (or error-out) to use it.
>>> 
>>> IMHO, cancel should only apply to the identification done by that service, not to all services.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> - Ira
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>>>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>>> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>>>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:34 AM, William A Wagner <wamwagner at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Ira,
>>>> 
>>>> I suggest that what is being identified is the physical device, and that the System Control Service is the proper recipient.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill Wagner
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: ipp-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:ipp-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Ira McDonald
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 5:37 PM
>>>> To: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)
>>>> Cc: <ipp at pwg.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Smith,
>>>> 
>>>> Tricky.  The "identify action duration" would be a new attribute (which
>>>> would require a revision of JPS3 spec - yuck).
>>>> 
>>>> Mike's right that IPPSIX is the wrong place to do this - the conformance
>>>> 
>>>> shouldn't have anything to do with IPPSIX.
>>>> 
>>>> I also don't think that System Control Service should get into this business
>>>> 
>>>> - or maybe I'm crazy and that actually is the *right* place?  Should SCS,
>>>> 
>>>> rather than an individual service, be the target of this device-level operation?
>>>> 
>>>> Someday, we need a lightweight IPP registration for whole new attributes
>>>> 
>>>> (in an existing attribute group), I suspect.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> - Ira
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>>>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>>> mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>>>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy at hp.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> IMHO, these look fine.  I wonder if the “identify action duration” needs to be covered by something?  Does the System Control Service need to concern itself with this domain?
>>>> 
>>>> Smith
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 2013-12-09, at 12:53 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> > All,
>>>> >
>>>> > During our last Cloud Imaging Model WG meeting, we discussed having the ability to explicitly cancel a previous Identify-Printer operation.  The consensus during that meeting was to add a new "identify-actions" keyword ('cancel') that would cancel any active identification mechanism.
>>>> >
>>>> > In addition, a new "printer-state-reasons" keyword ('identifying-printer' was proposed, although given the existing 'identify-printer-requested' value I like adding 'identify-printer-active' instead) would be added to allow a Client to discover whether a printer is currently identifying itself using an action other than 'cancel', which by definition stops any active identification and removes the new keyword from the "printer-state-reasons" attribute...
>>>> >
>>>> > The official registration would look like this:
>>>> >
>>>> >  Attributes (attribute syntax)
>>>> >    Keyword Attribute Value                       Reference
>>>> >    -----------------------                       ---------
>>>> >  identify-actions (1setOf type2 keyword)         [PWG5100.13]
>>>> >    cancel
>>>> >
>>>> >  printer-state-reasons (1setOf type2 keyword)    [RFC2911]
>>>> >    identify-printer-active
>>>> >
>>>> > Thoughts?
>>>> >
>>>> > (I considered adding this to IPPSIX, but since this has application outside of shared infrastructure/cloud deployments I think we should register it separately...)
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________________________
>>>> > Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > ipp mailing list
>>>> > ipp at pwg.org
>>>> > https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________________________
>>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ipp mailing list
>>> ipp at pwg.org
>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>> 
>> 
> 
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_______________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair

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