[IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

[IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

[IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

Zehler, Peter Peter.Zehler at xerox.com
Tue Feb 11 20:45:50 UTC 2014


Mike,

First, some workflows require push scan.  That does not mean push scan == workflow.  I do not consider scan to DropBox, SkyDrive or Flickr to be workflows but they are none the less useful "software optimizations".  Although a "fire and forget" aspect of the feature might be considered more than just an optimization.

Second, I expect that certain workflow Apps will only show scanners that can potentially deliver scans directly to the destination.  Pull only scanners are excluded from consideration.

As I said, I can live with a Boolean since that will narrow the field to at least the scanners capable of delivering scans directly to a destination.  The reason the schemes would be of interest is that finding a scanner capable of "remote copy" (i.e., scan to ipp/ipps) might be of interest.  A scan-to-email scanner might also be interesting for a client to find.   I would think that a push scanner could be depended upon to support http/https.  Which leaves ftp, ftps and smb.  I see some workflow solutions using hot folders that would benefit from that information but that is not a primary concern.

Peter Zehler

Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com<mailto:Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com>
Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
FAX: +1 (585) 265-7441
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701

From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:09 PM
To: Zehler, Peter
Cc: Ira McDonald; IPP at pwg.org
Subject: Re: [IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

Pete,

First, support for push scan != support for a workflow solution.

Second, how do you anticipate this being used with discovery? Do you think that users will be using a special workflow scanning application that only shows compatible MFDs that it discovers through DNS-SD/LDAP and does not support pull-scan only MFDs?

(Bear with me, I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to wrap my head around what the use case/requirements are here. A list of push schemes doesn't feel like the right answer to me...)


On Feb 11, 2014, at 1:12 PM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com<mailto:Peter.Zehler at xerox.com>> wrote:


Mike,

My definition of constrained network scan client with minimal local storage  is a dual-core 1GHz Snapdragon processor, a 4-inch WVGA screen, 512MB of memory and 2GB of storage.  But accommodating low end clients was not my point.

The need Xerox has to discover a Push scan service are scenarios such as I mentioned below.  This is not a capability that can be implemented by a client.   A pull from and MFD and then a push to a repository is not equivalent to an MFD pushing to a repository.   I view this as an enterprise scanning requirement.  Consumer and SMB targeted products can simply just implement pull and avoid the push related overhead.  But we need a scan solution that scales. Using discovery to filter basic relatively static capabilities is required.  For printing that is things like color printing and supported PDLs.  For Scanning it is document feed capabilities and , for me, if it can deliver a scan directly to a workflow (i.e., Push).

Pete

Peter Zehler

Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com<mailto:Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com>
Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
FAX: +1 (585) 265-7441
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701

From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:49 AM
To: Zehler, Peter
Cc: Ira McDonald; IPP at pwg.org<mailto:IPP at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

Pete,

Please provide your definition of a constrained network scan client with minimal local storage.


On Feb 11, 2014, at 11:38 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com<mailto:Peter.Zehler at xerox.com>> wrote:



All,
The use case of the constrained client with minimal local storage should be accommodated.  However the use case important to Xerox is where the client must have the scanner deliver the scanned documents directly to the destination.  (e.g., scanning a contract and delivering is securely to the destination.)  The ability to discover scanners that support push without interrogating all the scanners in an enterprise environment is needed.  We eliminated seven of the text records from the discovery message.  This leaves 4 mandatory, 2 conditional, and 2 optional.  Adding this one should not be an undue burden.  I can live with a Boolean but would prefer a list of schemes.  A list fully populated with the defined values would be "http,https,ftp,ftps,smb,ipp,ipps,mailto" which probably comes down to about 45 bytes for the text record.
Pete

Peter Zehler

Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com<mailto:Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com>
Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
FAX: +1 (585) 265-7441
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701

From: Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:55 AM
To: Michael Sweet; Ira McDonald
Cc: Zehler, Peter; IPP at pwg.org<mailto:IPP at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] IPP Scan - Is Push scanning mandatory?

Hi Mike,
Crossed wires?
The mobile client may have very limited local storage and therefore want
the MFD to push a large scan output file directly to a network server.  That's
the use case for the boolean in the TXT record (at least I thought that was
what Smith and Pete were concerned about).
Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic at gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com>
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com<mailto:msweet at apple.com>> wrote:
Ira,

On Feb 10, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Mike and Pete,
What about a simple TXT record discovery attribute for Push capability that's boolean?
Since a bunch of URI schemes are conditionally mandatory anyway, that gets 90% of
the discovery need.

What would be the use case?

It's one thing to need to find a color printer - you can't use software to print color on a B&W printers - but for scan if the MFD doesn't support push, the (mobile) client certainly *can* do it...

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair



_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair


_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair

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