[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

Zehler, Peter Peter.Zehler at xerox.com
Mon Mar 19 19:21:33 UTC 2012


Ira,

Would this be different than the "DocumentNaturalLanguage" element in
the "DocumentFormatDetails" element group?

Pete

 

 

Peter Zehler

Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
Voice: (585) 265-8755
FAX: (585) 265-7441
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701 

 

From: mfd-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:mfd-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Ira
McDonald
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Randy Turner; Ira McDonald
Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

 

Hi Randy,

My two cents.

We *always* transform one or more documents into
some different one or more documents.

So - for everything *but* natural language transforms,
we have to keep using the IPP and PWG SM universal
choice of document-format as IANA MIME type.

For the particular named transform(s) for natural
language, script, transliteration, etc., we probably
need new first-class properties that strictly conform
to the IETF LTRU specs (effectively input and output
language tags w/ IETF-approved ornaments).

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic> 
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc> 
mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434





On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Randy Turner
<rturner at amalfisystems.com> wrote:

Yeah, I was about to reply that I've never seen a mime tag specifying
natural language...

 

This was my only issue with the current transform draft - we may want to
treat "what" is being transformed as a higher layer abstraction,
removing any concrete mappings

 

R.




On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com>
wrote:

	Hi,
	
	This needs some major thought and discussion.
	
	The current IETF standards around language tags
	allow description of script and many other dimensions
	besides "natural language" (US English).
	
	I'm not sure of the standardization status of language
	tags on MIME types, but the PWG *definitely* should
	NOT be inventing this home brew.
	
	I'd rather use first class attributes for complex language,
	script, transliteration, etc. transformations.
	
	We need advice here from the IETF LTRU (Language
	Tag Registry Update) WG chairs and editors.
	
	There IS work-in-progress in IETF LTRU WG for 
	language tag translation-request extensions.
	
	MIME Types proper should be reserved for document
	formats, NOT for document metadata (like language
	tags).
	
	Cheers,
	- Ira
	
	
	Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
	Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
	Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
	Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
	Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
	Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
	IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
	Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
	http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic> 
	http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc> 
	mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
	Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
	Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

	
	
	

	On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Michael Sweet
<msweet at apple.com> wrote:

	Randy,

	 

	MIME media types can include parameters; we'd just need to
extend the current definitions of the types we care about to include a
"language" parameter.

	 

	 

	On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Randy Turner wrote:

	
	
	

	How would I specify I wanted a document transformed from UK
English to French using Mime types ?
	
	

	
	On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, "Zehler, Peter"
<Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

		Randy,

		The rationale for these ops is to enumerate the possible
"from" and "to" formats for transformations.  To resolve the "from" and
"to" mapping issue one side of the mapping is fixed based on the op.
The formats are defined as Mime types reusing the definition from print
and scan.  I am unaware of any constraints as to what a "format" can be
since the Mime value is qualified.  The DocumentFormatWKV simple type
(PwgWellKnownValues.xsd) has some values listed.  I expect the list to
be expanded during the Transform Service discussions.  The
"MimeExtensionPattern" permits any valid Mime value to be used as well.

		Pete

		 

		 

		Peter Zehler
		
		Xerox Research Center Webster
		Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
		Voice: (585) 265-8755 <tel:%28585%29%20265-8755> 
		FAX: (585) 265-7441 <tel:%28585%29%20265-7441> 
		US Mail: Peter Zehler
		Xerox Corp.
		800 Phillips Rd.
		M/S 128-25E
		Webster NY, 14580-9701 

		 

		 

		 

		From: Randy Turner [mailto:rturner at amalfisystems.com] 
		Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:41 AM
		To: Zehler, Peter
		Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
		Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm
EST Thursday 3/22

		 

		Hi Pete

		Regarding the "ListInputFormat/ListOutputFormat"
operations in the transform service definition...is the rationale for
these ops to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for
transformations?

		 

		If so, where are these formats defined? And are any
constraints as to what a "format" can be?

		 

		Thanks

		Randy

		 

		
		On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:11 AM, "Zehler, Peter"
<Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

			Agenda:

			 

			 

			1. Identify Minute Taker

			 

			2. Approval of previous minutes 

	
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf> > 

			 

			3. Agenda bashing 

			 

			4. Compile list of named transforms

			 

			5. Discuss recent changes to PWG Schema for
named transforms

			 

			6. Review latest Transform Service specification
	
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf> 

			 

			7. Next Steps

			 

			 

			 

			
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			Peter Zehler
			
			Xerox Research Center Webster
			Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
			Voice: (585) 265-8755 <tel:%28585%29%20265-8755>

			FAX: (585) 265-7441 <tel:%28585%29%20265-7441> 
			US Mail: Peter Zehler
			Xerox Corp.
			800 Phillips Rd.
			M/S 128-25E
			Webster NY, 14580-9701 

			
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