[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

Zehler, Peter Peter.Zehler at xerox.com
Mon Mar 19 20:21:58 UTC 2012


See

ListInputDocumentFormats:

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ServiceOperations.html#Link10C8>

 

ListInputDocumentFormatsRequest  

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ListInputDocumentFormatsRequest.html#LinkA03>

TargetDocumentFormat

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ListInputDocumentFormatsRequestType.html#LinkB78>

ListInputDocumentFormatsResponse

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ListInputDocumentFormatsResponse.html#LinkA05> 

InputDocumentFormatSupported

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ListInputDocumentFormatsResponseType.html#Link11C6> 

InputDocumentFormatSupported/InputDocumentFormatEntry

<http://www.pwg.org/mfd/navigate/PwgSmRev1-174_ListInputDocumentFormatsResponseType.html#LinkB73> 

 

 

Peter Zehler

Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
Voice: (585) 265-8755
FAX: (585) 265-7441
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701 

 

From: Randy Turner [mailto:rturner at amalfisystems.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 4:11 PM
To: Zehler, Peter
Cc: Ira McDonald; <mfd at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

 

I thought you said earlier that those operations list the possible "froms" and "tos" ?




On Mar 19, 2012, at 12:56 PM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

	Randy,

	The current draft does not assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to anything in the output list.  The “ListOutputDocumentFormats” lists the available output document formats for a single specified input document format.  The “ListInputDocumentFormats” lists the available input document formats for a single specified Output document format.  The output/input document format can be specified and either a “DocumentFormat” element with an optional “DocumentFormatVersion” or a “DocumentFormatDetails” element group.

	Pete 

	 

	 

	Peter Zehler
	
	Xerox Research Center Webster
	Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
	Voice: (585) 265-8755
	FAX: (585) 265-7441
	US Mail: Peter Zehler
	Xerox Corp.
	800 Phillips Rd.
	M/S 128-25E
	Webster NY, 14580-9701 

	 

	From: mfd-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:mfd-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Randy Turner
	Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 3:29 PM
	To: Ira McDonald
	Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
	Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

	 

	Still seems like the semantic model should avoid concrete mappings where possible, otherwise the doc could undergo needless revisions - you could have an abstract operation called "enumerateTransforms" that would return a list made up of Pwg transform types, some of these would map to mime, some wouldn't - the current draft assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to any thing in the output list - that may not be the case
	
	
	

	
	On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:

		Hi Randy,
		
		My two cents.
		
		We *always* transform one or more documents into
		some different one or more documents.
		
		So - for everything *but* natural language transforms,
		we have to keep using the IPP and PWG SM universal
		choice of document-format as IANA MIME type.
		
		For the particular named transform(s) for natural
		language, script, transliteration, etc., we probably
		need new first-class properties that strictly conform
		to the IETF LTRU specs (effectively input and output
		language tags w/ IETF-approved ornaments).
		
		Cheers,
		- Ira
		
		Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
		Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
		Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
		Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
		Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
		Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
		IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
		Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
		http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic <http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic> 
		http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc <http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc> 
		mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
		Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
		Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

		
		
		
		

		On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Randy Turner <rturner at amalfisystems.com> wrote:

		Yeah, I was about to reply that I've never seen a mime tag specifying natural language...

		 

		This was my only issue with the current transform draft - we may want to treat "what" is being transformed as a higher layer abstraction, removing any concrete mappings

		 

		R.
		
		
		

		
		On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:

			Hi,
			
			This needs some major thought and discussion.
			
			The current IETF standards around language tags
			allow description of script and many other dimensions
			besides "natural language" (US English).
			
			I'm not sure of the standardization status of language
			tags on MIME types, but the PWG *definitely* should
			NOT be inventing this home brew.
			
			I'd rather use first class attributes for complex language,
			script, transliteration, etc. transformations.
			
			We need advice here from the IETF LTRU (Language
			Tag Registry Update) WG chairs and editors.
			
			There IS work-in-progress in IETF LTRU WG for 
			language tag translation-request extensions.
			
			MIME Types proper should be reserved for document
			formats, NOT for document metadata (like language
			tags).
			
			Cheers,
			- Ira
			
			
			Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
			Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
			Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
			Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
			Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
			Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
			IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
			Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
			http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic <http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic> 
			http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc <http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc> 
			mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
			Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
			Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

			
			
			
			

			On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:

			Randy,

			 

			MIME media types can include parameters; we'd just need to extend the current definitions of the types we care about to include a "language" parameter.

			 

			 

			On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Randy Turner wrote:

			
			
			
			

			How would I specify I wanted a document transformed from UK English to French using Mime types ?
			
			
			

			
			On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

				Randy,

				The rationale for these ops is to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations.  To resolve the "from" and "to" mapping issue one side of the mapping is fixed based on the op.  The formats are defined as Mime types reusing the definition from print and scan.  I am unaware of any constraints as to what a “format” can be since the Mime value is qualified.  The DocumentFormatWKV simple type (PwgWellKnownValues.xsd) has some values listed.  I expect the list to be expanded during the Transform Service discussions.  The “MimeExtensionPattern” permits any valid Mime value to be used as well.

				Pete

				 

				 

				Peter Zehler
				
				Xerox Research Center Webster
				Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
				Voice: (585) 265-8755 <tel:%28585%29%20265-8755> 
				FAX: (585) 265-7441 <tel:%28585%29%20265-7441> 
				US Mail: Peter Zehler
				Xerox Corp.
				800 Phillips Rd.
				M/S 128-25E
				Webster NY, 14580-9701 

				 

				 

				 

				From: Randy Turner [mailto:rturner at amalfisystems.com] 
				Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:41 AM
				To: Zehler, Peter
				Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
				Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

				 

				Hi Pete

				Regarding the "ListInputFormat/ListOutputFormat" operations in the transform service definition...is the rationale for these ops to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations?

				 

				If so, where are these formats defined? And are any constraints as to what a "format" can be?

				 

				Thanks

				Randy

				 

				
				On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:11 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

					Agenda:

					 

					 

					1. Identify Minute Taker

					 

					2. Approval of previous minutes 

					<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf <ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf> > 

					 

					3. Agenda bashing 

					 

					4. Compile list of named transforms

					 

					5. Discuss recent changes to PWG Schema for named transforms

					 

					6. Review latest Transform Service specification
					          <ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf> 

					 

					7. Next Steps

					 

					 

					 

					
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					Peter Zehler
					
					Xerox Research Center Webster
					Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
					Voice: (585) 265-8755 <tel:%28585%29%20265-8755> 
					FAX: (585) 265-7441 <tel:%28585%29%20265-7441> 
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