[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

Ira McDonald blueroofmusic at gmail.com
Mon May 3 22:14:32 UTC 2010


Hi Mike,

Ah - I think I understand what you mean now.

In most Printer MIB v1/v2 entries as well as *all*
of the PDF/PS/PCL proposed entries, the vendor
name is BEFORE the name of the language in the
ASN.1 comments - that's where it belongs.

And there is no IANA procedure for changing the
comments on an *already* registered value (such as
you suggested for the base PS and PCL values).

I want to avoid changing Printer MIB v1 registrations,
for stability - unless they're seriously defective - there's
deployed software out there that displays these ASN.1
comments in a "more info" tab/button.

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
winter:
  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
  734-944-0094
summer:
  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
  906-494-2434



On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
> On May 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Ira McDonald wrote:
>> Hi George and Mike,
>>
>> I *strongly* disagree with dropping "HP" and "Adobe" from the
>> ASN.1 comments for these new registrations.
>
> Ira, I'm not suggesting that we drop "HP" or "Adobe", just that we adopt the format used by the current entries (which puts the vendor name *after* the format name) for consistency. I absolutely agree that we need to still have the vendor listed since HP and Adobe control/own the corresponding formats.
>
>> Ever since RFC 1759, the company that defined each printer
>> language has been named explicitly in all ASN.1 comments.
>> This is *very* important in order to distinguish from (possible
>> future) registrations of other vendor-extended variants.
>>
>> Look at all of our recent XPS, OpenXPS, JDF, JMF, PPML, etc.
>> IANA registrations as well as the Printer MIB v1/v2 legacy.
>>
>> If Ricoh wishes, they can request registration of vendor variants
>> of PCL (that include "Ricoh" in both the enum tags and ASN.1
>> comments).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Ira
>>
>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>> Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>> winter:
>>  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
>>  734-944-0094
>> summer:
>>  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
>>  906-494-2434
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>>> That's probably appropriate; Ira, let's normalize the PCL and PostScript
>>> descriptions to match the format of the current registrations:
>>>
>>>        langPCL(3),          -- PCL.  Starting with PCL version 5,
>>>                             -- HP-GL/2 is included as part of the
>>>                             -- PCL language.
>>>                             -- PCL and HP-GL/2 are registered
>>>                             -- trademarks of Hewlett-Packard
>>>                             -- Company.
>>>
>>> langPS(6), -- PostScript (tm) Language
>>>
>>>                             -- Postscript - a trademark of Adobe
>>>                             -- Systems Incorporated which may be
>>>                             -- registered in certain jurisdictions
>>>
>>> Looks like the existing langPDF and the new langPDF* definitions are already
>>> using the same conventions, so just the new PCL and PS descriptions need
>>> updating.
>>> On May 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, George Liu wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think we are stuck treating these as languages/language families.
>>>
>>> I'd like to suggest change the description for langPCL3, langPCL3GUI,
>>> langPCL5e, langPCL5c. Rename "HP Printer Command Language xxx" to "Printer
>>> Command Language xxx"
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
>>> Sent: Mon 5/3/2010 11:15 AM
>>> To: George Liu
>>> Cc: Ira McDonald; pwg-announce at pwg.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for
>>> IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)
>>>
>>> On May 3, 2010, at 11:10 AM, George Liu wrote:
>>>> Has PCL-XL been left out intentionally?
>>>
>>> Yes, because it is already registered in RFC 3805:
>>>
>>>         langPCLXL(47),       -- Not in RFC 1759
>>>                              -- Printer Control Language. Extended
>>>                              -- language features for printing, and
>>>                              -- printer control.
>>>                              -- Tammy Ferguson (HP)
>>>                              -- and Binnur Al-Kazily (HP)
>>>                              -- Technical reference manual: None
>>>                              -- Hewlett-Packard Co.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There're PCL-XL 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, etc. Microsoft GPD based mini drivers is
>>>> able to generate PCL-XL.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:47 AM
>>>> To: George Liu; Ira McDonald
>>>> Cc: pwg-announce at pwg.org; Michael R Sweet
>>>> Subject: Re: [Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants
>>>> for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)
>>>>
>>>> Hi George,
>>>>
>>>> Right - we're only talking about the graphics drawing aspect
>>>> of these printer languages.
>>>>
>>>> The IEEE 1284 Device ID format only supports a list of
>>>> printer languages - it cannot be extended (interoperably)
>>>> for these other device-specific aspects.
>>>>
>>>> The PWG cannot actually extend the capabilities keywords
>>>> or their syntax in the base IEEE 1284 spec.
>>>>
>>>> So the scope of comments we're requesting is only to identify
>>>> any other common variants of PCL (for example) that should
>>>> be registered with IANA.
>>>>
>>>> All of these are enumerated values in the single Printer MIB
>>>> integer object prtInterpreterLangFamily.  Other objects such
>>>> as prtInterpreterLangLevel and prtInterpreterDescription can
>>>> be used by vendors to distinguish vendor-unique features.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> - Ira
>>>>
>>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>>> Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
>>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>>> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>>> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>>> winter:
>>>>   579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
>>>>   734-944-0094
>>>> summer:
>>>>   PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
>>>>   906-494-2434
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, George Liu <george.liu at ricoh-tech.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Unlike PDF, which is a document format, Postscript and PCL/PCL-XL are
>>>> PDL, which means printer-device specific.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Tray-1 PCL command for HP printer means Bypass Tray, but means the
>>>> first tray under the printer engine for Ricoh printer.
>>>>> Also, in Postscript, there are many vendor specific Postscript
>>>> setpagedevice commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> How will the new command set definition handles this case?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are we only taking about the graphics drawing part not the device
>>>> control part?
>>>>> Or are we making "langPCL5e" only for a specific vender?
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>
>
>
>
>

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