[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

[Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)

Ira McDonald blueroofmusic at gmail.com
Tue May 4 17:03:37 UTC 2010


Hi George,

These language variant tags are *all* for addition to the textual
convention PrtInterpreterLangFamilyTC in the IANA Printer MIB
(original version in RFC 3805) for use in prtInterpreterLangFamily
object.

When the PWG PDF/is variant is registered, there will be no need
to qualify it in prtInterpreterLangLevel - it's independent.

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
winter:
  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
  734-944-0094
summer:
  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
  906-494-2434



On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:54 PM, George Liu <george.liu at ricoh-tech.com> wrote:
> Ira,
>
> You mentioned in your previous posting the following MIB field:
> prtInterpreterLangFamily, prtInterpreterLangLevel and prtInterpreterDescription.
>
> Is the newly defined PDL values for any of the fields?
> It looks like it's pretty hard to divide "langPDFis" into interpreter family field and language level field programmatically.
>
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 3:15 PM
> To: Michael Sweet; Ira McDonald
> Cc: George Liu; pwg-announce at pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Ah - I think I understand what you mean now.
>
> In most Printer MIB v1/v2 entries as well as *all*
> of the PDF/PS/PCL proposed entries, the vendor
> name is BEFORE the name of the language in the
> ASN.1 comments - that's where it belongs.
>
> And there is no IANA procedure for changing the
> comments on an *already* registered value (such as
> you suggested for the base PS and PCL values).
>
> I want to avoid changing Printer MIB v1 registrations,
> for stability - unless they're seriously defective - there's
> deployed software out there that displays these ASN.1
> comments in a "more info" tab/button.
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
> winter:
>  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
>  734-944-0094
> summer:
>  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
>  906-494-2434
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>> On May 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Ira McDonald wrote:
>>> Hi George and Mike,
>>>
>>> I *strongly* disagree with dropping "HP" and "Adobe" from the
>>> ASN.1 comments for these new registrations.
>>
>> Ira, I'm not suggesting that we drop "HP" or "Adobe", just that we adopt the format used by the current entries (which puts the vendor name *after* the format name) for consistency. I absolutely agree that we need to still have the vendor listed since HP and Adobe control/own the corresponding formats.
>>
>>> Ever since RFC 1759, the company that defined each printer
>>> language has been named explicitly in all ASN.1 comments.
>>> This is *very* important in order to distinguish from (possible
>>> future) registrations of other vendor-extended variants.
>>>
>>> Look at all of our recent XPS, OpenXPS, JDF, JMF, PPML, etc.
>>> IANA registrations as well as the Printer MIB v1/v2 legacy.
>>>
>>> If Ricoh wishes, they can request registration of vendor variants
>>> of PCL (that include "Ricoh" in both the enum tags and ASN.1
>>> comments).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> - Ira
>>>
>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>> Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>> winter:
>>>  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
>>>  734-944-0094
>>> summer:
>>>  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
>>>  906-494-2434
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
>>>> That's probably appropriate; Ira, let's normalize the PCL and PostScript
>>>> descriptions to match the format of the current registrations:
>>>>
>>>>        langPCL(3),          -- PCL.  Starting with PCL version 5,
>>>>                             -- HP-GL/2 is included as part of the
>>>>                             -- PCL language.
>>>>                             -- PCL and HP-GL/2 are registered
>>>>                             -- trademarks of Hewlett-Packard
>>>>                             -- Company.
>>>>
>>>> langPS(6), -- PostScript (tm) Language
>>>>
>>>>                             -- Postscript - a trademark of Adobe
>>>>                             -- Systems Incorporated which may be
>>>>                             -- registered in certain jurisdictions
>>>>
>>>> Looks like the existing langPDF and the new langPDF* definitions are already
>>>> using the same conventions, so just the new PCL and PS descriptions need
>>>> updating.
>>>> On May 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, George Liu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think we are stuck treating these as languages/language families.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to suggest change the description for langPCL3, langPCL3GUI,
>>>> langPCL5e, langPCL5c. Rename "HP Printer Command Language xxx" to "Printer
>>>> Command Language xxx"
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
>>>> Sent: Mon 5/3/2010 11:15 AM
>>>> To: George Liu
>>>> Cc: Ira McDonald; pwg-announce at pwg.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants for
>>>> IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)
>>>>
>>>> On May 3, 2010, at 11:10 AM, George Liu wrote:
>>>>> Has PCL-XL been left out intentionally?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, because it is already registered in RFC 3805:
>>>>
>>>>         langPCLXL(47),       -- Not in RFC 1759
>>>>                              -- Printer Control Language. Extended
>>>>                              -- language features for printing, and
>>>>                              -- printer control.
>>>>                              -- Tammy Ferguson (HP)
>>>>                              -- and Binnur Al-Kazily (HP)
>>>>                              -- Technical reference manual: None
>>>>                              -- Hewlett-Packard Co.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There're PCL-XL 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, etc. Microsoft GPD based mini drivers is
>>>>> able to generate PCL-XL.
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:47 AM
>>>>> To: George Liu; Ira McDonald
>>>>> Cc: pwg-announce at pwg.org; Michael R Sweet
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pwg-Announce] Call for Review of langPDF/PS/PCL variants
>>>>> for IANAPrinter MIB (30 April 2010)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi George,
>>>>>
>>>>> Right - we're only talking about the graphics drawing aspect
>>>>> of these printer languages.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IEEE 1284 Device ID format only supports a list of
>>>>> printer languages - it cannot be extended (interoperably)
>>>>> for these other device-specific aspects.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PWG cannot actually extend the capabilities keywords
>>>>> or their syntax in the base IEEE 1284 spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the scope of comments we're requesting is only to identify
>>>>> any other common variants of PCL (for example) that should
>>>>> be registered with IANA.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of these are enumerated values in the single Printer MIB
>>>>> integer object prtInterpreterLangFamily.  Other objects such
>>>>> as prtInterpreterLangLevel and prtInterpreterDescription can
>>>>> be used by vendors to distinguish vendor-unique features.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> - Ira
>>>>>
>>>>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>>>>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>>>>> Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG
>>>>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>>>>> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>>>>> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
>>>>> winter:
>>>>>   579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176
>>>>>   734-944-0094
>>>>> summer:
>>>>>   PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
>>>>>   906-494-2434
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, George Liu <george.liu at ricoh-tech.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Unlike PDF, which is a document format, Postscript and PCL/PCL-XL are
>>>>> PDL, which means printer-device specific.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Tray-1 PCL command for HP printer means Bypass Tray, but means the
>>>>> first tray under the printer engine for Ricoh printer.
>>>>>> Also, in Postscript, there are many vendor specific Postscript
>>>>> setpagedevice commands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How will the new command set definition handles this case?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are we only taking about the graphics drawing part not the device
>>>>> control part?
>>>>>> Or are we making "langPCL5e" only for a specific vender?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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