WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

McDonald, Ira imcdonald at sharplabs.com
Tue Apr 12 13:33:27 EDT 2005


Hi,

No - definitions go only _once_ in the Counter Spec - those terms
(but NOT the definitions) can be imported in the Counter MIB.

It's NOT an objective that the Counter MIB can be read/used
free-standing (without the Counter Spec).  If we restated the
actual definitions, we'd have to do so in the Counter Schema
and other future mappings.  All error-prone and bad standards
practice.

The time to fix the definition of 'full-color impressions'
was six years ago in the Job MIB.  The semantics are locked
down by the Job MIB (and by the PWG Semantic Model/1.0).

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Lynne Wagner [mailto:LynneWagner at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:21 PM
> To: 'McDonald, Ira'; 'Bergman, Ron'; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: 'Harry Lewis (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> Ira,
> 
> I am sorry that I am not communicating. I am not arguing to change the
> meanings of terms; rather the opposite. As I stated 
> previously, the Counter
> does NOT explicitly define the MIB terms that Ron identified. 
>  Table 4.2.1
> etc deal with impressions and images, where the "descriptions" are not
> subject to misunderstanding, not with media sheets, where the 
> descriptions
> in the MIB certainly are subject to mis-understanding. The 
> only implicit
> definitions of the various media sheets are in table 4.3 Media Used.
> Granting the intent that "The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of
> abstract counters whose semantics are normatively defined in 
> the Counter
> Spec", perhaps this discussion should be about inconsistency 
> in mapping. 
> 
> In any case, the MIB Descriptions for media sheets variations suggest
> meanings that are different from the counter spec. Resolution 
> may be to
> ensure that the exact terms are defined in the Counter spec 
> and to have the
> Counter MIB Descriptions refer to the counter spec. 
> Alternatively, the MIB
> descriptions may be modified to agree with the implicit 
> definitions in the
> counter spec. 
> 
> Taking Ron as an example of an intelligent MIB reader, note that his
> interpretation of full color printing does not clearly 
> reflect the Counter
> Spec concept that full-color is the printing of any non-black 
> colorant (a
> non-intuitive definition). I therefore suggest that there would be an
> advantage including a useful description in the MIB.
> 
> Bill Wagner
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wims at pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims at pwg.org] On 
> Behalf Of McDonald,
> Ira
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:05 PM
> To: 'Bergman, Ron'; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> Hi Ron and Bill,
> 
> Three points:
> 
> (1) The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of abstract counters
>     whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter Spec.
> 
> (2) The entire section 1.2 'Imaging Terminology' in the Counter MIB
>     should be _deleted_ and replaced with a single sentence that
>     states the names of terms imported normatively from the Counter
>     Spec.
> 
> (3) All issues on definitions must be resolved in the Counter Spec.
> 
> The Counter Spec _does_ define 'black impressions', etc., in section
> 4.2.1 'Job Counters Table'.  Those definitions are exactly aligned
> with the definitions in the Job MIB (RFC 2707) and IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911)
> which are already part of the PWG Semantic Model/1.0 and are NOT 
> subject to change in their meaning (though examples are permissible
> in the Counter Spec).
> 
> We've already debated (at previous PWG face-to-face meetings) and
> WIMS teleconferences whether definitions can be changed.  And agreed
> that they MUST NOT be changed to conflict with the deployed Job MIB
> and IPP job progress extensions.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:56 AM
> > To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Ira,
> > 
> > Sorry for my confusion here, but can you tell me where
> > 'black media sheet' is defined?  I could not find this
> > in the Counter's spec.
> > 
> > If someone says to me 'black media sheet', I would believe
> > (incorrectly I guess) they were talking about a black sheet
> > of paper, not a sheet printed with black toner.  Note that
> > I am not concerned with the object name, just the 
> > description clause.
> > 
> > 	Ron
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:09 AM
> > To: Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); McDonald, Ira
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ron,
> > 
> > The first is a good catch - thanks.
> > 
> > The rest are rewordings that attempt to tersely redefine
> > what a 'black media sheet' (for example) means.  The
> > Counter MIB normatively imports these definitions from
> > the Counter Spec.  The rewordings are possibly dangerous
> > and add no value (in my opinion).  It is NOT the business
> > of the Counter MIB to redefine these terms at variance
> > with the Counter Spec.
> > 
> > My two cents,
> > - Ira
> > 
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:25 PM
> > To: wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); Ira McDonald (E-mail 3)
> > Subject: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > I have two comments on this document. 
> > 1. Invalid examples in the description clause for: 
> > icKeySubunitType  The text "(e.g., print, copy, etc.)" is incorrect 
> > for this object.  Should be "(e.g., inputTray, outputBin, etc.)". 
> > 2. Unclear wording in the description clauses for: 
> > icSheetBlackSheets: 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Black media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > icSheetBlankSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Blank media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > icSheetFullColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Full color media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > icSheetHighlightColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Highlight color media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> > icMediaUsedBlackSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > icMediaUsedBlankSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Blank sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > icMediaUsedFullColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Full color sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > icMediaUsedHighlightColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Highlight color sheets of this specific media 
> > printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> >         Ron Bergman 
> >         Ricoh Printing Systems America 
> > 
> 



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