WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

Bergman, Ron Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com
Tue Apr 12 13:42:19 EDT 2005


Ira,

>From the Job MIB:

    fullColorImpressionsCompleted(114), Integer32 (-2..2147483647)
        INTEGER:  The number of full color impressions completed by the
        device for this job so far.  For printing, the impressions
        completed includes interpreting, marking, and stacking the
        output.  For other types of job services, the number of
        impressions completed includes the number of impressions
        processed. Full color impressions are typically defined as those
        requiring 3 or more colorants, but this MAY vary by
        implementation.  In any case, the value of this attribute counts
        by 1 for each side that has full color, not by the number of
        colors per side (and the other impression counters are
        incremented, except highlightColorImpressionsCompleted(115)).

Seems to be different from your current definition.

	Ron Bergman
	Ricoh Printing Systems America


-----Original Message-----
From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:33 AM
To: 'A. Lynne Wagner'; McDonald, Ira; Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
Cc: 'Harry Lewis (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments


Hi,

No - definitions go only _once_ in the Counter Spec - those terms
(but NOT the definitions) can be imported in the Counter MIB.

It's NOT an objective that the Counter MIB can be read/used
free-standing (without the Counter Spec).  If we restated the
actual definitions, we'd have to do so in the Counter Schema
and other future mappings.  All error-prone and bad standards
practice.

The time to fix the definition of 'full-color impressions'
was six years ago in the Job MIB.  The semantics are locked
down by the Job MIB (and by the PWG Semantic Model/1.0).

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Lynne Wagner [mailto:LynneWagner at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:21 PM
> To: 'McDonald, Ira'; 'Bergman, Ron'; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: 'Harry Lewis (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> Ira,
> 
> I am sorry that I am not communicating. I am not arguing to change the
> meanings of terms; rather the opposite. As I stated 
> previously, the Counter
> does NOT explicitly define the MIB terms that Ron identified. 
>  Table 4.2.1
> etc deal with impressions and images, where the "descriptions" are not
> subject to misunderstanding, not with media sheets, where the 
> descriptions
> in the MIB certainly are subject to mis-understanding. The 
> only implicit
> definitions of the various media sheets are in table 4.3 Media Used.
> Granting the intent that "The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of
> abstract counters whose semantics are normatively defined in 
> the Counter
> Spec", perhaps this discussion should be about inconsistency 
> in mapping. 
> 
> In any case, the MIB Descriptions for media sheets variations suggest
> meanings that are different from the counter spec. Resolution 
> may be to
> ensure that the exact terms are defined in the Counter spec 
> and to have the
> Counter MIB Descriptions refer to the counter spec. 
> Alternatively, the MIB
> descriptions may be modified to agree with the implicit 
> definitions in the
> counter spec. 
> 
> Taking Ron as an example of an intelligent MIB reader, note that his
> interpretation of full color printing does not clearly 
> reflect the Counter
> Spec concept that full-color is the printing of any non-black 
> colorant (a
> non-intuitive definition). I therefore suggest that there would be an
> advantage including a useful description in the MIB.
> 
> Bill Wagner
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wims at pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims at pwg.org] On 
> Behalf Of McDonald,
> Ira
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:05 PM
> To: 'Bergman, Ron'; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> Hi Ron and Bill,
> 
> Three points:
> 
> (1) The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of abstract counters
>     whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter Spec.
> 
> (2) The entire section 1.2 'Imaging Terminology' in the Counter MIB
>     should be _deleted_ and replaced with a single sentence that
>     states the names of terms imported normatively from the Counter
>     Spec.
> 
> (3) All issues on definitions must be resolved in the Counter Spec.
> 
> The Counter Spec _does_ define 'black impressions', etc., in section
> 4.2.1 'Job Counters Table'.  Those definitions are exactly aligned
> with the definitions in the Job MIB (RFC 2707) and IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911)
> which are already part of the PWG Semantic Model/1.0 and are NOT 
> subject to change in their meaning (though examples are permissible
> in the Counter Spec).
> 
> We've already debated (at previous PWG face-to-face meetings) and
> WIMS teleconferences whether definitions can be changed.  And agreed
> that they MUST NOT be changed to conflict with the deployed Job MIB
> and IPP job progress extensions.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:56 AM
> > To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Ira,
> > 
> > Sorry for my confusion here, but can you tell me where
> > 'black media sheet' is defined?  I could not find this
> > in the Counter's spec.
> > 
> > If someone says to me 'black media sheet', I would believe
> > (incorrectly I guess) they were talking about a black sheet
> > of paper, not a sheet printed with black toner.  Note that
> > I am not concerned with the object name, just the 
> > description clause.
> > 
> > 	Ron
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:09 AM
> > To: Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); McDonald, Ira
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ron,
> > 
> > The first is a good catch - thanks.
> > 
> > The rest are rewordings that attempt to tersely redefine
> > what a 'black media sheet' (for example) means.  The
> > Counter MIB normatively imports these definitions from
> > the Counter Spec.  The rewordings are possibly dangerous
> > and add no value (in my opinion).  It is NOT the business
> > of the Counter MIB to redefine these terms at variance
> > with the Counter Spec.
> > 
> > My two cents,
> > - Ira
> > 
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:25 PM
> > To: wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); Ira McDonald (E-mail 3)
> > Subject: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > I have two comments on this document. 
> > 1. Invalid examples in the description clause for: 
> > icKeySubunitType  The text "(e.g., print, copy, etc.)" is incorrect 
> > for this object.  Should be "(e.g., inputTray, outputBin, etc.)". 
> > 2. Unclear wording in the description clauses for: 
> > icSheetBlackSheets: 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Black media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > icSheetBlankSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Blank media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > icSheetFullColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Full color media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > icSheetHighlightColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Highlight color media sheets printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> > icMediaUsedBlackSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > icMediaUsedBlankSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Blank sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > icMediaUsedFullColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Full color sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > icMediaUsedHighlightColorSheets 
> >    Current: 
> >         "Highlight color sheets of this specific media 
> > printed by this 
> >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> >    Suggested: 
> >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > managed service 
> >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> subunit (e.g., 
> >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> >         Ron Bergman 
> >         Ricoh Printing Systems America 
> > 
> 




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