WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

McDonald, Ira imcdonald at sharplabs.com
Tue Apr 12 14:10:53 EDT 2005


Hi Ron,

You won't see a new MIB until _after_ the agreed definitions
are added to an 'lcrc-wimscount10-xxx.pdf' spec.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel more than once here.

Certainly you won't see any new MIB until _after_ the planned
(but not scheduled) Counter Spec and Counter MIB review telecon
sometime next week.  Changes to Last Call editions MUST be
approved by mailing list and telecon concensus first.

I'm working (offline) on a wording for the Counter MIB that
would avoid the dubious definitions problems (when the Counter
Spec has been clarified).

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 2:03 PM
> To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> OK, so when will we see a new MIB?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:52 AM
> To: Bergman, Ron; McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> You're looking at an out-of-date Counter Spec.  The one in Last Call
> is at:
> 
> 	ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimscount10-20050329.pdf
> 
> MIBs _must_ use a final, plural noun in object definitions with the
> syntax 'Counter32' (per SMIv2 and IETF best practices).  Thus
> 'icMediaUsedBlackSheets' and the parent 'icSheetBlackSheets'.
> This is a typographical convention.
> 
> I am strongly opposed to leaving _any_ definitions of sheets,
> black, full-color, etc. in the Counter MIB.  That's the job of
> the Counter Spec.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:32 PM
> > To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Ira,
> > 
> > You must have a totally different set of documents than I have!
> > In my copy of wd-wimscount10-20050322.pdf (March 23,2005) I find
> > on page 20:
> >    MediaUsed.BlackSheets
> >          "The total number of pieces of this specific media that
> >          have been used and which only black colorant is placed
> >          on either side of the media."
> > 
> > Then on wd-wimscountmib10-20050319.htm, page 37, I read:
> >     icMediaUsedBlackSheets
> >          "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> >          managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or 
> >          managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > 
> > "Black sheets" implies that the sheets are colored black, not
> > printed using "black colorant", as in MediaUsed.BlackSheets.
> > 
> > The worst is on page 32 (I don't see an equivalent in the 
> > counters spec)
> > 
> >     icSheetBlackSheets
> >          "Black media sheets printed by this managed service
> >          (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit
> >          (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > 
> > Ira, if you feel the text currently in the MIB is not ambiguous
> > and will never be misinterpreted, then don't change.  My personal
> > opinion is that it can be improved, but that is only a suggestion.
> > 
> > 	Ron Bergman
> > 	Ricoh Printing Systems America
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:05 AM
> > To: Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ron and Bill,
> > 
> > Three points:
> > 
> > (1) The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of abstract counters
> >     whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter Spec.
> > 
> > (2) The entire section 1.2 'Imaging Terminology' in the Counter MIB
> >     should be _deleted_ and replaced with a single sentence that
> >     states the names of terms imported normatively from the Counter
> >     Spec.
> > 
> > (3) All issues on definitions must be resolved in the Counter Spec.
> > 
> > The Counter Spec _does_ define 'black impressions', etc., in section
> > 4.2.1 'Job Counters Table'.  Those definitions are exactly aligned
> > with the definitions in the Job MIB (RFC 2707) and IPP/1.1 
> (RFC 2911)
> > which are already part of the PWG Semantic Model/1.0 and are NOT 
> > subject to change in their meaning (though examples are permissible
> > in the Counter Spec).
> > 
> > We've already debated (at previous PWG face-to-face meetings) and
> > WIMS teleconferences whether definitions can be changed.  And agreed
> > that they MUST NOT be changed to conflict with the deployed Job MIB
> > and IPP job progress extensions.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > - Ira
> > 
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:56 AM
> > > To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> > > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ira,
> > > 
> > > Sorry for my confusion here, but can you tell me where
> > > 'black media sheet' is defined?  I could not find this
> > > in the Counter's spec.
> > > 
> > > If someone says to me 'black media sheet', I would believe
> > > (incorrectly I guess) they were talking about a black sheet
> > > of paper, not a sheet printed with black toner.  Note that
> > > I am not concerned with the object name, just the 
> > > description clause.
> > > 
> > > 	Ron
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:09 AM
> > > To: Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
> > > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); McDonald, Ira
> > > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Ron,
> > > 
> > > The first is a good catch - thanks.
> > > 
> > > The rest are rewordings that attempt to tersely redefine
> > > what a 'black media sheet' (for example) means.  The
> > > Counter MIB normatively imports these definitions from
> > > the Counter Spec.  The rewordings are possibly dangerous
> > > and add no value (in my opinion).  It is NOT the business
> > > of the Counter MIB to redefine these terms at variance
> > > with the Counter Spec.
> > > 
> > > My two cents,
> > > - Ira
> > > 
> > > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > > PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> > > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > > email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:25 PM
> > > To: wims at pwg.org
> > > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); Ira McDonald (E-mail 3)
> > > Subject: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I have two comments on this document. 
> > > 1. Invalid examples in the description clause for: 
> > > icKeySubunitType  The text "(e.g., print, copy, etc.)" is 
> incorrect 
> > > for this object.  Should be "(e.g., inputTray, outputBin, etc.)". 
> > > 2. Unclear wording in the description clauses for: 
> > > icSheetBlackSheets: 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Black media sheets printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> > >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > > icSheetBlankSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Blank media sheets printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> > >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > > icSheetFullColorSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Full color media sheets printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> > >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > > icSheetHighlightColorSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Highlight color media sheets printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
> > >         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> > > icMediaUsedBlackSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > > managed service 
> > >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> > subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> > > icMediaUsedBlankSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Blank sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > > managed service 
> > >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> > subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> > > icMediaUsedFullColorSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Full color sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > > managed service 
> > >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> > subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> > > icMediaUsedHighlightColorSheets 
> > >    Current: 
> > >         "Highlight color sheets of this specific media 
> > > printed by this 
> > >         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
> > >         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
> > >    Suggested: 
> > >         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> > > managed service 
> > >         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed 
> > subunit (e.g., 
> > >         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> > >         Ron Bergman 
> > >         Ricoh Printing Systems America 
> > > 
> > 
> 



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