WIMS> Concall- 14 July 11AM NOTE PHONE CHANGE!

WIMS> Concall- 14 July 11AM NOTE PHONE CHANGE!

WIMS> Concall- 14 July 11AM NOTE PHONE CHANGE!

nchen at okidata.com nchen at okidata.com
Fri Jul 11 17:16:16 EDT 2008


Given the recent discussions and new information involving this project, 
it is important to pause and make sure our original assumptions and 
direction are still valid. In particular, I had assumed that Windows 
provides a full WS-Management application. As a result, I agreed that the 
PWG should develop a MIB-to-CIM provider so that this full WS-Management 
application could manage CIM printers, since no SNMP path was available. 
It seems this assumption is not valid for Windows, in that Windows SMS2003 
and perhaps the follow-on SystemConfigurationresourceManager ( I am still 
investigating this) do not provide support for WS-Management for printers 
(Note: it supports WS-Management for Windows Hardware Platform, Mobile 
Devices).  If Windows does not have such a WS-Management application, and 
we want printers being able "to be managed along with other network 
devices by some extant general Web Services management capability ", then 
Oki Data's position is not to provide CIM printer object at all, but 
rather implement the PWG MFD semantic model's web services binding for 
future full featured WS-Management applications including printers. As a 
confirmation, we should ask Microsoft about their roadmap for SMS + 
WS-Management + printers including the target ship date. 

General WS-Management applications can take XML-schema, which can be 
provided by any printer that implements PWG Print Service model in 
XML-schema (a WSD-Printer for example).  CIM conversion was assumed to be 
a quick path into full Microsoft WS-Management applications, since a 
conversion module exisits (WinRM). However,  as Rick pointed out, WinRM 
only provides a command line interface, not good enough as a full-featured 
GUI-based printer management application using WS-Management.  Since there 
is no full-blown application (just command line browser feature), the 
benefit of doing the CIM conversion is not clear, and requires further 

I believe many printer/device management applications such as WebJetAdmin, 
Tivoli, CA, etc., are all migrating toward WS-Management of web services. 
Some of these accept CIM objects, but the printer management programs like 
webJetAdmin do not. Therefore, the printer management specific programs 
will likely migrate directly from SNMP to WS-Management while maintaining 
SNMP backwards compatibility. There is no benefit, but rather extra 
overhead, in going through a CIM converter. Do these application takes CIM 
objects only? It is important to ensure the PWG MFD semantic model support 
the full capabilities such as power management, and then let printer 
vendors migrate their programs to WS-Management utilizing the MFD spec.

If Microsoft and others can be expected to provide full WS-Management 
applications in the next 2-3 years, then perhaps we should redirect the 
effort towards creating an SNMP -> MFD WS-Services Listening Agent so that 
legacy printers can work with the full IT environment WS-Management 
applications, and so that all printer vendors can support legacy devices 
in their WS-Printer Management applications. 

Principal Engineer
Solutions and Technology
Oki Data
2000 Bishops Gate Blvd.
Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054
Phone: (856)222-7006
Email: nchen at okidata.com

"William A Wagner" <wamwagner at comcast.net> 
Sent by: owner-wims at pwg.org
07/10/2008 04:11 PM

<wims at pwg.org>

WIMS> Concall- 14 July 11AM  NOTE PHONE CHANGE!


The next WIMS/CIM concall is at 11 AM EDT Monday, 14 July.

The dial-in information is:
Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada):  1-866-469-3239
Call-in toll number (US/Canada):  1-650-429-3300
Call-in toll number (US/Canada):  1-408-856-9570
Attendee access code:   21967831

Don't worry about attendee ID code.

The agenda is much like last weeks. But Item 4 should be considered in the
light of the information from Nancy and Rick that boils down to that fact
that a CIM provider deriving its device information by SNMP access to the
printer, even when used in conjunction with existing Windows facilities,
will NOT:
A. allow printers to be managed along with other network devices by
some extant general Web Services management capability
B. Provide anything but a low-level command line user management
application, roughly equivalent to a simple SNMP browser.

We need to come up with some conceptual diagrams:

SNMP                         CIM             WS-MAN (?)
Printer <-------->CIM provider proxy <--------->COMOM<------------> WIN-RM
higher level management application)

Proposed Agenda:

1. Review of 7 July minutes:
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/minutes/cim-wims_080707.pdf and

2. Counter MIB CIM conversions. Ira posed several questions for which no
answers are listed
a. Mapping String length
b. Config Change Element
c. Timestamp

3. Update on Dell Prototyping Activity

4. MIB-CIM Provider Effort
a. Ideas on development sponsor...Company that would benefit sufficiently
to sponsor development
b. Member Companies willing to contribute funds, manpower for Open
Printing effort
c. What do we really want as a result of development?
1. second implementation of Printer Schema to get out of
experimental status (Yes)
2. Freely available, product level release of Provider application
a. Who  provides executables for which OS?
b. Who makes availability known, distributes
c. Who maintains software, does customer service
3. Open source code to be used by Imaging Equipment manufacturers of
others to produce (proprietary) applications?
5. Next steps.

Thanks. Hope you can join the call.

Bill Wagner

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