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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>メッセージ</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Hello Melinda-san,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Here is the Epson comment you pointed out, however for some issues I may misunderstanding or not understanding well</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>I'd like to share my new-and-improved understanding based on discussions within the CSS WG: ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>    <FONT face="ＭＳ Ｐゴシック" color=#0000ff><Following comments is Epson current understanding for the first 4 bullets part in your original mail></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>'html' is container for the document and its style properties should not be effective.<BR>Epson understands this because 'display' property of 'html' is not defined for CSS-PP Enhanced explicitly.<BR>It should be treated as 'inline' and it causes inconsistency.<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>And here is the Epson's comment for other bullets.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Is a font property set ....</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Epson agree with your  proposal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Do the html and page margins collapse?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[no]</FONT></SPAN> </LI></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>As I  mentioned as above, Epson thinks style property of 'html' does not have meaning.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>So Epson feels this question may have no meanings. For these issues we may need more clarifications.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT color=#008000><FONT size=2>Are html and body borders closed at the bottom of each page<SPAN class=218593921-27092006>...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Basically Epson agree with this. Epson would like to know how specification describe this. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Does a background property set within an @page rule get applied to the page margins?  [Yes] To the page area unless obscured by html, body, or other backgrounds?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[????, under discussion]</FONT></SPAN> </LI></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Epson agrees with this description.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff> <LI><FONT size=2><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000>On the last page of a document, do the html and body properties terminate immediately after the last content, or at the bottom of the page (e.g., do the html and body margins get drawn right below the last paragraph, or at the bottom of the page?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000>[Immediately after content.]</FONT></SPAN> </FONT></LI></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I could not understand this clearly. Epson thinks it should treated as box model definition.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Do you intend such clarification? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Similarly, on the last page, do the page bg, border, etc. extend to the bottom of the page, or terminate after the last content?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[bottom of the page]</FONT></SPAN> </LI></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Epson agree with your understanding.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry for my late response.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Best Regards.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>---</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Shoji KOJIMA</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=218593921-27092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=ja dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-xp@pwg.org [mailto:owner-xp@pwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Grant, Melinda<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> xp@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> XP> Margins, borders, padding, and backgrounds<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>From HP's perspective (and I think we're not alone), the CSS specification is difficult to interpret with respect to how margins, borders, padding, and backgrounds work when applied to the <body> and <html> elements.  Recently we have learned that the CSS3 Paged Media module is not clear on how the same properties used within an @page context should interact with the html properties.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>I'd like to share my new-and-improved understanding based on discussions within the CSS WG: ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <UL> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>First, there are html attributes and there are css properties.  In html, the body element has a bgcolor attribute, but the html element does not.  For XHTML documents, the UA (printer) must convert the body bgcolor attribute into an equivalent printer style rule:<BR>So <body bgcolor="red"> gets converted into the printer stylesheet rule: body {background-color: red}.  (This gets a bit more complicated for HTML documents, but we don't need to go there.)  This printer stylesheet rule will be overridden by an author stylesheet rule, should one exist.</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>See <A href="http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css2-src/cascade.html#q13">http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css2-src/cascade.html#q13</A>.</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>The body element is no different when it comes to CSS styling from any other element.  Backgrounds, margins etc behave just as they do for a div, for example.</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>The html element is the root element.  It can also be selected with ':root'.  It is special, in that a background is applied to the margins as well as the content area.  This is because it 'paints the canvas', which is infinite.  The only way in XHTML to put a background in the html margin area and/or the body margin area is to use a background on the html element.  (See <A href="http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#q2">http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#q2</A>.)</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>The attached file, 'margin-both.xhtml' when opened with Firefox, provides an example of how html and body edgings should be rendered.</FONT></SPAN></LI></UL> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>There are still some open questions about how @page properties work.  I am hoping to publish a new version within the next week or so that will resolve questions such as the following:  [My proposed answers are in brackets.]</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <UL> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Is a font property set within an @page rule applied to the page content area (unless overridden by properties set on elements rendered on the page), or just to the contents of the page margin boxes?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2> [Proposed Answer: Just to the margin boxes.]</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Do the html and page margins collapse?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[no]</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Are html and body borders closed at the bottom of each page, or just at the end of the document?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[Just at the end of the document]</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Does a background property set within an @page rule get applied to the page margins?  [Yes] To the page area unless obscured by html, body, or other backgrounds?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[????, under discussion]</FONT></SPAN> <LI><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>On the last page of a document, do the html and body properties terminate immediately after the last content, or at the bottom of the page (e.g., do the html and body margins get drawn right below the last paragraph, or at the bottom of the page?</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>[Immediately after content.]</FONT></SPAN> <LI><FONT size=2><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="ＭＳ Ｐゴシック" color=#0000ff><SPAN class=218593921-27092006>  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000>Others?</FONT></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Best regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=965272701-15092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000 size=2>Melinda</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT> <P align=left><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#008000></FONT><BR>  _____ <BR><BR>HP  -   Melinda Grant<BR>Connectivity Standards <BR>Consumer Printing and Imaging<BR>+1 (541) 582-3681<BR>melinda.grant@hp.com   <BR>  _____ <BR><BR></P></FONT> <DIV><FONT face="ＭＳ Ｐゴシック" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>