XP Mail Archive: RE: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XH

RE: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS Prin t Pr ofile re leased

From: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1) (jim.bigelow@hp.com)
Date: Mon Feb 10 2003 - 14:20:56 EST

  • Next message: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1): "XP> February 10, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS Print Profile r eleased"

    Hello Miyazawa-san,

    You wrote the following on February 06, 2003 n response to Elliott Bradshaw:

    > Thank you for your constructive response.
    > we want to pick up #3.

    Elliott Bradshaw wrote :
    > ...
    > A concern about requiring landscape support is that the
    > amount of RAM memory could go up quite a bit.
    > ...
    > We wonder, though,
    > if there is a solution in how we write the spec, so that we
    > don't end up requiring large amounts of memory in the printer.
    >
    > There are several possibilities:
    > ...
    > 3. Specify that landscape is supported, but above some
    > printer-defined memory limit may resort to dropping images,
    > re-laying out pages, or some other non-WYSIWYG presentation.

    I, also, think that #3 is the way to proceed. The CSS Print Profile
    Specification states in the conformance section
    (http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/CSS-Print.html#section-conforma
    nce):

      2. The inability of a PP-UA to implement part of this
         specification due to the limitations of a particular
         device (e.g., a PP-UA cannot render colors on a mono-
         chrome page) shall not imply non-conformance.

    I believe that a given printer's inability to support landscaping is in the
    very nature of the device, i.e., it is too limited in memory to rotate
    images, in the same manner that a monochrome printer cannot render colors or
    another printer cannot print in a requested font-family because it doesn't
    have that font. Therefore, a printer without enough memory rotate a page
    can still claim to be a conforming printer.

    I, therefore, suggest that we add landscape to the list of enhanced layout
    values of the size property with the footnote that the PP-UA may ignore the
    value landscape if it lacks the memory to support landscape printing.

    Jim Bigelow,
    Editor: XHTML-Print & CSS Print Profile
    IEEE-ISTO, Printer Working Group
    http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print
    Hewlett-Packard
    208-396-2068
    jim.bigelow@hp.com

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Miyazawa Shunsaku [mailto:Miyazawa.Shunsaku@exc.epson.co.jp]
    > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:28 PM
    > To: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1);
    > 'ElliottBradshaw@oaktech.com'; don@lexmark.com
    > Cc: 'kazuyuki Murata'; 'Kenji Hisatomi'
    > Subject: RE: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print
    > and CSS Prin t Pr ofile re leased
    >
    >
    > Hello all,
    >
    > Thank you for your constructive response.
    > we want to pick up #3.
    > There is always the problem of "availability of rotation"
    > around printer especialiy without PC, you know. So we think
    > that it is appropriate to write the caution in spec, because
    > the caution is significant to care the problem by content
    > creators and DTV/reception devices.
    >
    > In addition, #2 is impossible. There is no function to request
    > the printer availability in IEEE1394 printersubunit.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Shunsaku Miyazawa
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: ElliottBradshaw@oaktech.com [mailto:ElliottBradshaw@oaktech.com]
    > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:11 AM
    > To: Miyazawa Shunsaku
    > Cc: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1); don@lexmark.com
    > Subject: Re: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print
    > and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
    >
    >
    >
    > Hello Miyazawa-san,
    >
    > Jim Bigelow, Don Wright, and I have been considering the
    > question of landscape pages for DTV support (which is now the
    > same as Enhanced Layout) in XHTML-Print.
    >
    > Currently a printer can optionally support landscape pages,
    > and if a control protocol such as UPnP or Bluetooth is
    > involved, the printer can tell the client whether or not
    > landscape is supported.
    >
    > A concern about requiring landscape support is that the
    > amount of RAM memory could go up quite a bit. In fact there
    > is no practical way to calculate how much memory a printer
    > needs to have if it is to handle every landscape page.
    >
    > The reason is that images will need to be read into memory
    > completely so that the printer can turn them 90 degrees. For
    > web content, this is not too bad--perhaps a few megabytes.
    > But for photo content, each image could require a lot of
    > memory. A page with four 5MPixel photos might need 60 MB of
    > RAM! This would have a meaningful impact on the cost of the printer.
    >
    > We are guessing that your interest is because future TVs will
    > have a wide screen format, so that landscape better matches
    > the image. Also, I realize that the images a TV would print
    > would usually not be of photo resolution. We wonder, though,
    > if there is a solution in how we write the spec, so that we
    > don't end up requiring large amounts of memory in the printer.
    >
    > There are several possibilities:
    >
    > 1. Leave it as it is...landscape is not mandatory but the
    > client can discover and use it if a printer has it.
    >
    > 2. Pick some arbitrary amount of memory in the printer and
    > specify that landscape support is only guaranteed to work for
    > pages with less than that much image data.
    >
    > 3. Specify that landscape is supported, but above some
    > printer-defined memory limit may resort to dropping images,
    > re-laying out pages, or some other non-WYSIWYG presentation.
    >
    > #2 and #3 are both somewhat at odds with the rest of the
    > specification, which so far does not have any numeric limits.
    >
    > We wonder if there is a way to solve this for DTVs using the
    > current approach. In the 1394 scheme you are defining, is
    > there a way for the DTV to get additional information about
    > the printer? You could add paramaters to tell it not only
    > whether landscape is supported, but also how much memory is available.
    >
    > I think there will always be scenarios in which landscape
    > mode is either not available or overflows internal memory.
    > So it seems that a DTV client should have some capability to
    > print to protrait pages, even if they don't look as good as landscape.
    >
    > Your comments please!
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Elliott
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------
    > Elliott Bradshaw
    > Director, Software Engineering
    > Oak Technology Imaging Group
    > 781 638-7534
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Miyazawa Shunsaku
    >
    > <Miyazawa.Shunsaku@exc.ep To:
    > "'xp@pwg.org'" <xp@pwg.org>
    > son.co.jp> cc:
    >
    > Sent by: owner-xp@pwg.org Subject:
    > FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of
    >
    > XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
    >
    >
    > 01/28/2003 04:35 AM
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hello all ,
    >
    > Thanks for adding DTV enhancement set to the extended layout
    > enhancement . I look over current CSS Print Enhanced ,so I
    > recognize I had forgotten to request some CSS values as CSS
    > Print Enhanced.
    >
    > DTV request follows CSS values , a few more
    > 1. "right" value for "text-align" property.
    > 2. "landscape" value for "size" property.
    > 3. "lower latin" and "upper latin" values for "
    > list-style-type" property.
    >
    > So, we would like to add these CSS values as CSS Print Enhanced.
    >
    >
    > Shunsaku Miyazawa
    > SEIKO EPSON
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1) [mailto:jim.bigelow@hp.com]
    > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:59 AM
    > To: 'xp@pwg.org'
    > Subject: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS
    > Print Profile re leased
    >
    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > The latest version of the specs, dated January 23, 2003, are
    > now on the PWG web site.
    >
    > These specifications are based on the January 7, 2002
    > versions, see http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0146.html.
    >
    > The specifications
    > - XHTML-Print
    > (http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/XHTML-Print.html)
    , and
    - CSS Print Profile
    (http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/CSS-Print.html),
    are available for review from the XHTML-Print Working Group Home page
    (http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/wg-home.html).

    Versions with changes marked, can been seen by visiting the current spec and
    then selected the "Markup Version".

    Changes for this version of the specifications:
    1. The editorial changes noted in http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0168.html
    2. The editorial corrections noted in
    http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0177.html
    3. DTV enhancement set added to the extended layout enhancement set.
    http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/minutes/Minutes-November-2002.html#dtv
    4. Border-collapse property added to the extended layout enhancement set,
    http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0128.html
    5. Addition of Attribute Selectors: E[Attr] and E[Attr=val] to the extended
    layout enhancement set, http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0102.html. Adjacent
    selectors not added.

    Jim Bigelow,
    Editor: XHTML-Print & CSS Print Profile
    IEEE-ISTO, Printer Working Group
    http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print
    Hewlett-Packard
    208-396-2068
    jim.bigelow@hp.com



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