IPP> notification methods

IPP> notification methods

IPP> notification methods

don at lexmark.com don at lexmark.com
Fri Aug 11 14:59:41 EDT 2000


Sounds like something MA Bell would do.  My ISP does NOT.

**********************************************
* Don Wright                 don at lexmark.com *
* Chair, Printer Working Group               *
* Chair, IEEE MSC                            *
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kugler%us.ibm.com at interlock.lexmark.com on 08/11/2000 12:56:47 PM

To:   Peter.Zehler%usa.xerox.com at interlock.lexmark.com
cc:   jkm%underscore.com at interlock.lexmark.com,
      ipp%pwg.org at interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Don Wright/Lex/Lexmark)
Subject:  RE: IPP> notification methods





Peter-

I once tried to run a server on an ATT Worldnet dial-up account.  It just
didn't work.  Their T&Cs say






 Additional Rules of Member Conduct



    1.  not use your AT&T WorldNet Service dial-up connection to host a
      dedicated Internet server site.





It's easy enough for them to prevent you from running a server, simply by
blocking incoming connections.  Whether or not they were actually blocking
me, or something else was wrong, I don't know.  Anyway, there are likely to
be other problems.  For example, (from the DSL Reports knowledge base,
http://www.dsl-reports.com/information/kb/):




 private ip
 Some DSL (or cable) networks may provide you a private IP address. The
 good news is that probably doesn't change, and is secure. The bad news is
 that it isn't a real IP so nobody on the internet can reach you, although
 you can reach everyone. This is essentially NAT implemented by the
 provider on a grand scale.







 NAT
 NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is a technique for
 translating one set of IP addresses, often private, to another set, often
 public. Compare NAT to socks -- NAT is often implemented on a router or
 specialized NAT box, although it is equally commonly implemented on a PC,
 running NAT software.

 NAT is a very flexible technique, but in the DSL world you will
 interested (or maybe using) just one implementation: NAT setup to allow a
 single public IP address to be simultaneously reused by multiple internal
 PCs with private IP addresses. To the outside world, you appear to have
 only a single IP, but you actually have many devices 'behind' this IP
 address.

 Note, you don't get something for nothing here! With NAT, as with socks,
 incoming connections can be problematic to setup, requiring configuration
 on your NAT capable router, or NAT software, to assign (map) external
 services (web, FTP and so on) through to specific internal machines. Many
 NAT capable devices or software are not sufficiently flexible to cope
 with all requirements and software you may have, and some 'NAT
 unfriendly' protocols break, even if NAT maps them correctly!






Certainly you can get multiple fixed IP addresses, etc., if you're willing
to pay for it. The question is:  is the marginal utility of INDP
notifications sufficient to justify the cost of these services.

     -Carl




"Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com> on 08/11/2000 10:01:30 AM

To:   Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM at IBMUS, jkm at underscore.com
cc:   ipp at pwg.org
Subject:  RE: IPP> notification methods



Carl,

I don't know who your ISP is but mine has no control over a server running
on my host.  They do control the length of my IP lease.  In my case the
lease lasts hours.  Certainly enough time for a notification.  (Not enough
time to host a business...they charge for that.)

I can have a fixed IP address and I can have multiple IP addresses if I so
desire.  The use of INDP assumes programmatic interactions in near real
time.  If I build an application that relies on this it may well impose
requirements on system/network configurations as well as influence the
components I buy.

I see a real need for programmatic as well as end user notification.  We
should be specifying and building enabling technologies.  Our role should
be
enable policy not to enforce it.

Pete



                    Peter Zehler
                    XEROX
                    Xerox Architecture Center
                    Email: Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com
                    Voice:    (716) 265-8755
                    FAX:      (716) 265-8792
                    US Mail: Peter Zehler
                            Xerox Corp.
                            800 Phillips Rd.
                            M/S 139-05A
                            Webster NY, 14580-9701



-----Original Message-----
From: kugler at us.ibm.com [mailto:kugler at us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:25 PM
To: jkm at underscore.com
Cc: ipp at pwg.org
Subject: Re: IPP> notification methods




It's equally impractical in the road warrior scenario.  Most ISPs won't let
you run a server unless you pay them for the privilege.

SOHO is another problem.  Windows Connection Sharing and other network
address translation schemes are often used so that multiple hosts on a LAN
can all reach the Internet through a single IP address allocated by the
ISP.  Of course, ISPs will be happy to sell you more addresses, for a
monthly fee...

So, it's impractical for enterprise, SOHO, and dial-up.  What does that
leave?  Possibly some university networks (and Lexmark ;-) );  I can't
think of much else.

     -Carl



Jay Martin <jkm at underscore.com> on 08/04/2000 02:53:08 PM

Please respond to jkm at underscore.com

To:   Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM at IBMUS
cc:   ipp at pwg.org
Subject:  Re: IPP> notification methods



Carl,

Ah, now you've caught my attention...  ;-)

> Me and 99% of other end users in the real world.  INDP over the Internet
is
> not impossible, just impractical.

We must assume your term "end users in the real world" refers to
enterprise environments, right?

That is, if the "real world" implies a usage scenario describing a
"Road Warrior sitting in her hotel room wanting to print a document
at a local copy shop", then in your opinion can INDP satisfy those
99% of "real world" users?  Or is it equally impractical as in the
enterprise environment?

     ...jay












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