At 18:03 12/18/1997 PST, Ron Bergman wrote:
>Tom,
>>I agree with Bill on this issue, especially that "the point may be moot"
>>Have you asked Kinkos how they charge in this situation?
I believe that Kinkos charges by the sheet for printing from a PC.
For copying, they have a different rate for one versus two sided
copying. So far, I have not run into a duplex printer at Kinkos,
so I don't know whether they have a policy for two-sided printing.
But if the printing charge is like the copying charge, this issue
would be moot.
>>We should stick with the agreement per the LA meeting.
Then we may want to add a note that impressions is more for monitoring
and sheets is for monitoring and accounting.
Tom
There is another comment on this issue that was sent only to the IPP DL
suggesting a rather simple algorithm that only worries about the last
sheet, not any other sheets, and only as a recommendation. Is that a good
compromise?
>X-Sender: spencerdr at vipmail.earthlink.net>Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:03:04 PST
>To: "Wagner, William" <WWagner at digprod.com>
>From: David R Spencer <david at spencer.com>
>Subject: RE: IPP> Re: JMP> URGENT: Should impressions include blank last
> page back sides or not?
>Cc: ipp at pwg.org>Sender: ipp-owner at pwg.org>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by
garfield.cp10.es.xerox.com id LAA26719
>>Bill,
>>I'm just monitoring the group, but isn't there a significant difference
between blank pages within a document and documents in a duplex job with an
odd number of pages causing the COMPLETELY blank back side of the last page
to be counted? Almost all page printers include an option for not printing
such completely blank pages, and I think the point about user concern is
well taken.
>>Therefore, perhaps the sentence in the definition of impression:
>> If a two-sided document has an odd number of pages, the last sheet still
counts as two impressions, if that sheet makes two passes through the
marker or the marker marks on both sides of a sheet in a single pass.
>should be:
>If a two-sided document has an odd number of pages and there are no marks
to be made on second side of the last sheet, the last sheet should count as
one impression, instead of two, even if that sheet makes two passes through
the marker.
>>David R. Spencer
>>Spencer & Associates Publishing, Ltd.
>Three Giffard Way, Melville, NY 11747-2310
>david at spencer.com>1-516-367-6655 Fax:1-516-367-2878
>http://www.spencer.com>______________________________________________________________________
>>>>This was discussed in great detail at the LA meeting. If one agrees
>>that the MIB is to provide information on what the printer does, which
>>may not necessarily agree with what the rate structures may or may not
>>be at a particular place at a particular time, then I think the
>>contention that sending a sheet side through transfer and fixing steps
>>constitutes making an impression. The question of how much colorant is
>>put on that page is a separate one. If it is a single period, a fully
>>colored page or a blank page, colorant use is a different characteristic
>>from impression, and one which could be instrumented.
>>>>In most page printers, the information that a page has no marking is not
>>readily available. The page goes though the same processes, takes pretty
>>much the same time and the same wear and tear on the mechanism. I
>>suggest that, unless the printer has a way of separately ejecting such
>>sheet sides, from a printer point of view, treating a blank side
>>differently is an artificial distinction.
>>>>The point may be moot. I am told that commercial duplication houses
>>charge by the sheet, with perhaps a different sheet rate for duplex (but
>>no distinction for blank sides). A large in-house reports person told
>>me that there are no blank pages; there is a header or footer, a page
>>number, or a "This page intentionally left blank" message.
>>>>I suggest that a measure of importance from those actually concerned
>>with the accounting be obtained before the MIB imposes the derivation of
>>another parameter on the printer.
>>>>W. A. Wagner (Bill Wagner)
>>OSICOM/DPI
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jay Martin [SMTP:jkm at underscore.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 11:50 PM
>>> To: Tom Hastings
>>> Cc: jmp at pwg.org; ipp at pwg.org>>> Subject: IPP> Re: JMP> URGENT: Should impressions include blank
>>> last page back sides or not?
>>>>>> Sorry, but I must agree with Angelo Caruso with the position
>>> that most folks are going to be pretty upset if they are
>>> charged for blanks sides of sheets. Can't say that I like
>>> that idea at all.
>>>>>> ...jay
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -- JK Martin | Email: jkm at underscore.com --
>>> -- Underscore, Inc. | Voice: (603) 889-7000 --
>>> -- 41C Sagamore Park Road | Fax: (603) 889-2699 --
>>> -- Hudson, NH 03051-4915 | Web: http://www.underscore.com --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>