IPP Mail Archive: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

IPP Mail Archive: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

Anthony Porter (anthony.porter@computer.org)
Mon, 3 May 1999 10:52:10 +0200

Returning the age means returning "printer-up-time" - eventStamp where
eventStamp is the printer-up-time at the momemt the event occurred.

"job-printer-up-time" also has to be recomputed each time, so the only
difference is a subtraction operation.

number-of-intervening-jobs is much harder to implement because you have to
take account of priorities, paper required and so on. I wasn't able to
implement this attribute at all because the printer does not queue jobs but
takes the most suitable when it needs work.

Anthony Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ipp@pwg.org [mailto:owner-ipp@pwg.org]On Behalf Of Hastings,
Tom N
Sent: Friday, 30 April, 1999 8:26 PM
To: anthony.porter@computer.org
Cc: 'Stefan Andersson'; ipp@pwg.org
Subject: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

We discussed this idea at the New Orleans meeting and again on the telecon
last Wednesday. While it does solve the problem of not needing the
"printer-up-time" attribute, there was objection to job attributes that need
recomputing each time the job is queried.

We already have one of those: "number-of-intervening-jobs" and it has proved
to be a pain.

So we are proposing (see yesterday's mail) adding a REQUIRED
"job-printer-up-time" Job attribute which is an alias for the
"printer-up-time" Printer attribute.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Porter [mailto:anthony.porter@computer.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 08:09
To: 'Zehler, Peter'; 'Stefan Andersson'; ipp@pwg.org
Cc: 'Hastings, Tom N'; anthony.porter@computer.org
Subject: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

Perhaps the solution is to keep the time-at-xxx attributes, but have them
return the elapsed time in seconds between the time the event occurred, and
the present time i.e. time-at-creation represents the age of the job in
seconds. That way the values do not depend on the printer-up-time.

A printer without a clock can support that, provided it has a timer.

The client can use its own local time to calculate the absolute times, or if
the printer has a clock and supports "printer-current-time", the client can
also calculate the printer time.
Anthony Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ipp@pwg.org [mailto:owner-ipp@pwg.org]On Behalf Of Zehler,
Peter
Sent: Thursday, 25 March, 1999 3:57 PM
To: 'Stefan Andersson'; ipp@pwg.org
Cc: Hastings, Tom N; anthony.porter@computer.org
Subject: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

Stefan,
Comments below.
Pete

Peter Zehler
XEROX
Networked Products Business Unit
Email: Peter.Zehler@usa.xerox.com
Voice: (716) 265-8755
FAX: (716) 265-8792
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 111-02J
Webster NY, 14580-9701

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Andersson [mailto:stefan.andersson@axis.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 9:46 AM
To: Zehler, Peter; ipp@pwg.org
Cc: Hastings, Tom N; anthony.porter@computer.org
Subject: RE: IPP> MOD - Use of time [and Bake Off 2 Issue 17]

On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Zehler, Peter wrote:
> The HTTP layer requires a time stamp. Simple time protocols exist that
> are very light weight. A page can be made available in the embedded web
> server to set the current date and time. If all else fails the time can
be
> grabbed from incoming HTTP packets.
>

It is true that the HTTP layer requires a time stamp, but there is an
exception to this rule. From draft-ietf-http-v11-spec-rev-06.txt
14.18 Date:
3. If the server does not have a clock that can provide a
reasonable approximation of the current time, its responses MUST
NOT include a Date header field. In this case, the rules in
section 14.18.1 MUST be followed.

To add a page for setting the current date and time is not a good idea. If
a date is to be useful the client must be sure that the clock isn't
reseted between requests. The same argument can be used against grabbing
it from incoming HTTP packets, the server will have no way to control that
the incoming date/time is correct. The only way to get a date that would
work is to use for example NTP.

PZ> Software does not have to blindly accept a time change.
PZ> Timestamps can be adjusted based on the latest truth.
PZ> (I assume the client will ask for all the timestamps instead
PZ> of one at a time)
PZ> Across the Internet the chances of the Client and the Printer
PZ> having their time in sync is remote. A man with one watch
PZ> knows what time it is, a man with two is never really sure.
PZ> My point was that there are a number of methods to obtain the
PZ> current time. Each has certain advantages and disadvantages.
PZ> Let the method of obtaining the time be selected by the implementation
PZ> based on product requirements. There is a real end user advantage
PZ> to having the timestamps

Since the Date field probably is most useful for clients when the server
is spooling. I would recomend one of this alternatives:
1) Add optional attribute that gives the time in an absolute form.
2) If the server can answer in an absolute form it should do that
otherwise it will answer in an relative form as the protocol states
today.
PZ> Are you suggesting alternate syntaxes for the same attribute?
PZ> Are you suggesting the following from the issues list?
> 1.Add to the IPP/1.1 Model and Semantics document OPTIONAL job
> description attributes: .date-time-at-creation (dateTime)., .date-
> time-at-processing (dateTime)., and .date-time-at-completion
> (dateTime)..
PZ> It is statement 2 above that confuses me. Are you suggesting
PZ> the client ask for all attributes or both the absolute and relative
PZ> attributes or something else?

/Stefan

--
Stefan Andersson                         Software Engineer
Print Server Business Unit               Stefan.Andersson@axis.com
AXIS Communications AB                   Phone: +46 46 270 19 85
Scheelevägen 16                          Fax: +46 46 13 61 30
S-223 70  LUND, SWEDEN                   http://www.axis.com