IPP Mail Archive: Re: IPP>NOT mailto feature from IETF meeti

Re: IPP>NOT mailto feature from IETF meeting (RE: IPP> ADM - TheIPPNotification I-Ds will now go the IESG)]

From: Jay Martin (jkm@underscore.com)
Date: Fri Aug 18 2000 - 23:08:45 EDT

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    Ira,

    Since you're the self-declared expert on all things IETF,
    what is the current position of the IETF on producing protocols
    that don't support I18N? Does the IETF mandate that all human-readable
    elements of protocol data support I18N, or merely frown upon it?

    Or do that *not* mandate it at all? Just curious.

            ...jay

    "McDonald, Ira" wrote:
    >
    > Hi Jay,
    >
    > The IPP 'mailto:' notification method recommends
    > suitable content for the human-readable notification,
    > while gracefully dodging the issues of I18n for
    > tagging of that content.
    >
    > How does a user know that the next few characters
    > are 'job-id' rather than something else?
    > Are there 'labels' that are translations of the intent
    > (if not the name) of IPP attributes in the notification?
    >
    > Is the notification an actually linguistically correct
    > _whole_sentence_ in the target notification language?
    > How can we have a standardized email notification
    > that doesn't address the human usability of the
    > content?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > - Ira McDonald
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Jay Martin [mailto:jkm@underscore.com]
    > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 6:51 PM
    > To: McDonald, Ira
    > Cc: 'ned.freed@innosoft.com'; ipp@pwg.org
    > Subject: Re: IPP>NOT mailto feature from IETF meeting (RE: IPP> ADM -
    > TheIPPNotification I-Ds will now go the IESG)]
    >
    > Ira,
    >
    > No one ever, *ever* said I18N in mail messages wasn't difficult.
    > Don't know how you came to that conclusion.
    >
    > In fact, with the exception of Tom Hastings (big surprise),
    > there hasn't been a word said on this thread by anyone
    > else about I18N in email notifications, except for your
    > comments and the interesting side comment by Ned.
    >
    > ...jay
    >
    > "McDonald, Ira" wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi Ned,
    > >
    > > Thanks - you're the only person who has reinforced my
    > > periodic comments that the I18N for the stuff in the
    > > 'simple text' email notifications is a nice juicy
    > > problem - since IPP and most (or all?) shipping IPP
    > > Printer implementations define support for multiple
    > > human languages and charsets.
    > >
    > > And the fact that a client can ask for a notification
    > > in some other charset than UTF-8 further complicates
    > > I18N, because the obvious starting point (message
    > > catalogs in UTF-8) leads to smashed characters in
    > > many local charsets.
    > >
    > > I think the IPP 'mailto:' notification method should
    > > be a good deal more complete on this I18N topic.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > - Ira McDonald, consulting architect at Xerox and Sharp
    > > High North Inc
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: ned.freed@innosoft.com [mailto:ned.freed@innosoft.com]
    > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 8:21 AM
    > > To: pmoore@peerless.com
    > > Cc: David_Kellerman@nls.com; kugler@us.ibm.com; ipp@pwg.org
    > > Subject: Re: IPP>NOT mailto feature from IETF meeting (RE: IPP> ADM -
    > > TheIPPNotification I-Ds will now go the IESG)]
    > >
    > > <...snip...>
    > >
    > > Frankly, the bigger problem with this stuff is i18n support for the text.
    > > But that's a different topic.
    > >
    > > IMO the supposed difference between simple text and a structured report is
    > a
    > > chimera. Email support in general is another matter, of course.
    > >
    > > Ned



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