Hi Tom,
Well done. You captured everything we talked about for suffixes
for stationery and photographic yesterday.
Cheers,
- Ira McDonald
-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:53 PM
To: ipp@pwg.org
Cc: IMAGING@FORUM.UPNP.ORG; GRANT,MELINDA (HP-Vancouver,ex1); Mark
VanderWiele (E-mail)
Subject: IPP> Proposed deletions and additions to Media Types for Media
Std
Ira, Bob, Norbert, and I met at today's Media Std telecon. We propose the
following deletions, additions, and clarifications to the Media Type
specification from the D8 Draft, based on the IBM proposed Media Types and
Melinda Grant's contribution.
******Please respond to the mailing list if you disagree******
Ron and I want to publish a last draft that has the final size ABNF and
Media Types this week.
Summary (see detailed proposed text below):
1. Taking into account Melinda's suggested requirements and proposed
deletions (see below), we agree that we have too many glossies. Based on my
trip to Office Depot and Staples (see below), there were no papers that
weren't adequately described by the reduced list. So delete:
photographic-high-gloss
photographic-semi-gloss
leaving only: photographic, photographic-glossy, photographic-satin,
photographic-matte, photographic-film
and indicate the satin is for "satin" or "semi-gloss" coating.
Indicate that all the photographic are one-sided coating (agreed with what I
found in the stores - see below).
2. Add the following types as two-sided coatings:
stationery-glossy
stationery-matte
to the D8 names: stationery, stationery-coated, stationery-inkjet. Clarify
that these coatings are the same on both sides.
Do not add stationery-satin, since it didn't appear in the stores.
3. From the IBM proposal (see below), we felt that the following were
significant to be included, and the rest could be handled by custom. These
values map to IPP "media-col" member attributes as indicated:
stationery-preprinted 6 "media-col.media-pre-printed" =
'pre-printed'
stationery-letterhead 6 "media-col.media-pre-printed" =
'pre-printed'
stationery-prepunched 7 "media-col.media-hole-count" = n n > 0
stationery-fine -- for vellum or other high quality paper
stationery-heavyweight 8 "media-col.media-weight-metric" = n n >
normal
stationery-lightweight 8 "media-col.media-weight-metric" = n n <
normal
Here are the proposed actual text. Inserted text into D8 text is indicated
inside []:
Reference 5 needs some fixing:
5 = IPP Production Printing Attributes [IPP-PROD] The name in this
document is derived from a subset of the "media-front-coating" and
"media-back-coating" member attributes by adding the 'photographic-' prefix
and 'stationery-' to the IPP keyword values.
The 6 would be a Ref. like:
6 = IPP Production Printing Attributes [IPP-PROD] The name in this
document is derived from the "media-pre-printed" member attribute by adding
the 'stationery-' prefix to the IPP keyword values.
The 7 would be a Ref. like:
7 = IPP Production Printing Attributes [IPP-PROD] The name in this
document represents values greater than 0 of the IPP "media-hole-count"
member attribute.
The 8 would be a Ref. like:
8 = IPP Production Printing Attributes [IPP-PROD] The name in this
document represents values that are greater than or less than the "normal"
integer value of the IPP "media-weight-metric" member attribute.
stationery
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material [no change]
1, 3
stationery-coated
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material with a coating [on both sides]
of unspecified type
stationery-inkjet
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material whose coating [on both sides] is
designed to minimize the spread of liquid inks
stationery-glossy [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "glossy" coating on
both sides.
5
stationery-matte [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "matte" coating on
both sides.
5
stationery-preprinted [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that is pre-printed on at least
one side.
6
stationery-letterhead [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that is pre-printed letter head
on at least one side.
6
stationery-prepunched [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that is pre-punched. The number
of holes is unspecified.
7
stationery-fine [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material, such as vellum or other high
quality paper
stationery-heavyweight [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that is heavier in weight than
the 'stationery' type.
8
stationery-lightweight [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that is lighter in weight than
the 'stationery' type.
8
photographic
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material to produce photographic quality
images. The coating is unspecified [and is on one side only].
photographic-glossy
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "glossy" coating [on
one side only] to produce photographic quality images.
5
[deleted: photographic-high-gloss and photographic-semi-gloss]
photographic-satin
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "satin" [or
"semi-gloss" ]coating [on one side only] to produce photographic quality
images.
5
photographic-matte
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "matte" coating [on
one side only] to produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-film
Separately cut sheets of film used to produce photographic quality images.
[no change]
******Please respond to the mailing list if you disagree******
Thanks,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings, Tom N
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 18:51
To: 'GRANT,MELINDA (HP-Vancouver,ex1)'; IMAGING@FORUM.UPNP.ORG
Cc: ipp@pwg.org
Subject: RE: IPP> Media Types for Media Std
I think Melinda makes some excellent points about Media Types for our
telecon. Especially the criteria for adding Media Type names to the
standard.
I did my action item and found the following Media Types at Office Depot and
Staples. Many Printer vendors sell paper: Canon, HP, Epson, Xerox, as well
as Kodak and Hammermill. There were two big floor to ceiling shelves: one
labeled photographic and the other labeled inkjet. Staples' paper choices
weren't quite so extensive, but didn't yield any additional types.
Based on what I found, I propose:
a. clarifying that photographic is one-sided
b. adding two new Media Type (two-side glossy and two-sided matte for
brochures and flyers)
I think these clarifications and additions meet Melinda's proposed criteria.
As another rough criteria, I'm only proposing new types, if more than one
paper vendor had the type.
Here are the product names that I found on the photographic case of varying
weights (pounds and grams per square meter) and thickness (mils), all of the
photographic papers were for inkjet.
HP Premium Photo Paper - Glossy
Kodak Ultima Picture Paper - High Gloss
Kodak Ultima (Inkjet) - Satin
Kodak Premium Picture (inkjet) Paper - High Gloss
Kodak Premium Picture (inkjet) - Satin
Kodak Picture (inkjet) - Soft Gloss
Epson Photo Quality Glossy Paper
I think that they were all one-sided, though I didn't spring for $20.00 to
find out. The Epson Photo Quality Glossy Paper did have light gray printing
on the back side, so that the user would use the proper side (I could see
through the transparent wrapping).
There were some two-sides coated papers:
HP Professional Brochure & Flyer Paper - two-sided gloss
HP Professional Brochure & Flyer Paper - two-sided matte
HP Photo-quality Inkjet Paper - two-sided matte
Hammermill Brochure and Sales Flyers - two-sided matte
Therefore, I suggest the following clarifications:
1. 'photographic-xxx' types to be one-sided. After all photographs are
usually put into an album, a picture frame, or on the refrigerator where
only one side is visible
2. 'stationery-coated' and 'stationery-inkjet' to be two-sided
I also think we need to add two new stationery sub-types to get the two
sided glossy and matte that several vendors have for brochures and flyers:
stationery-glossy
stationery-matte
Here are my suggested new types. Additional words added to existing types
are indicated in []:
stationery
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material [no change]
1, 3
stationery-coated
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material with a coating [on both sides]
of unspecified type
stationery-inkjet
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material whose coating [on both sides] is
designed to minimize the spread of liquid inks
stationery-glossy [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "glossy" coating on
both sides.
stationery-matte [new]
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "matte" coating on
both sides.
photographic
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material to produce photographic quality
images. The coating is unspecified [and is on one side only].
photographic-glossy
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "glossy" coating [on
one side only] to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-high-gloss
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "high-gloss" coating
[on one side only] to produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-semi-gloss
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "semi-gloss" coating
[on one side only] to produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-satin
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "satin" coating [on
one side only] to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-matte
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "matte" coating [on
one side only] to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-film
Separately cut sheets of film used to produce photographic quality images.
[no change]
Comments?
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: GRANT,MELINDA (HP-Vancouver,ex1) [mailto:melinda_grant@hp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 17:28
To: IMAGING@FORUM.UPNP.ORG
Cc: ipp@pwg.org
Subject: IPP> Media Types for Media Std
I won't be able to participate in the dial-in conversation.
Regarding the IBM proposal for additional types,
I agree that a manufacturer providing a driver intended to work only with
one particular printer may want to include a list of very specific print
media names, so that it's clear to the end user exactly which media will
work or provide the best results; I don't think a "standardized" type list
provides much value in this context. The developers of the printer firmware
and the driver software can agree on a name, and the solution works just
fine.
But where one print application or driver needs to interoperate with many
different printers from many different manufacturers, or where the end-user
is mobile and never sees the package the media came in, a standard list of
types that are generally descriptive is valuable.
In my opinion, the standard type string should do two things:
1. It should enable the printer to produce better output on a
particular class of medium when that medium is used. (Eg, when I use some
glossy photo paper and I tell the printer I'm using "photo-glossy", I should
get better results in some way.)
2. It should enable the end-user to tell the printer which medium
to select or expect. This requires that the end-user is able to create an
intuitive mapping from the medium she wants to print on to the standard
media type name. (Eg, I know this is photo paper and it's glossy, so
"photo-glossy" sounds like the closest thing on the list... Or, my package
says "Hammermill JetPRINT Photo, Gloss Finish", so "photo-glossy" sounds
like a fit.)
As Mark pointed out, this second objective is compromised by the number of
"levels" of gloss we have currently identified, so I'd like to see us reduce
those to just glossy, satin, and matte; or if necessary, high-gloss,
medium-gloss, low-gloss, matte.
To pursue the photo example a bit, if we take the "be very specific"
approach, I would want to add:
HP Premium Photo Paper, Glossy
HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, Glossy
HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, Matte
HP Photo Paper
HP Photo Quality Inkjet Paper, Matte Finish
HP Photo Quality Inkjet Paper, Semi-Gloss Finish
for starters. Is there a duplicate in this list with Mark's
"MEDIA_HP_PHOTOGRAPHIC_PAPER"? I don't know.
In fact, "standardizing" every name every manufacturer might want to use
only gives us a huge list and reduces the chances of intersection and
therefore interoperability.
I'd rather see us converge on a relatively small list of types we can
clearly explain the differences between, rather than an exhaustive list of
names. (In a UPnP-like environment, the vendor can always extend the list
of media types supported to include their favorite specific names, which the
CP can then turn around and offer to the end-user for selection. So an HP
printer might offer support for "HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, Glossy" and an
Epson printer might offer "Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper", but they would
both offer "photographic-glossy".)
Thanks,
Melinda
-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@CP10.ES.XEROX.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:36 AM
To: IMAGING@FORUM.UPNP.ORG
Subject: Telecon, Wed, May 16, 10-12 PDT (1-3 EDT): Media Types for
Media Std
Here is the dial-in information:
Time: May 16, 2001 10:00 - 12:00 PST (1:00 - 3:00 EST)
Phone: 1-712-271-0309 (8*534-8273 for Xerox folks)
Passcode: 98099#
We've reached a proposed consensus on the Media Size syntax. Silence on the
mailing lists will be interpreted as agreement. Remaining action items from
the Portland meeting are:
Media Types - IBM proposed a list of more types (see below).
Tom Hastings was going to check at Office Depot and Staples to see what
types are sold there.
So far research has shown that photographic-xxx is one sided. HP has
several two-sided glossy and matte as well for brochures and flyers (not
photographs). (I'll firm that up this afternoon).
Also the following people volunteered to check for missing sizes:
Melinda Grant: check PCL sizes
Don Wright: check Microsoft sizes
Tom Hastings: check PPD sizes
Ron (and Don) will not be able to join us for the telecon. I'll take notes.
We intend this to be the last telecon on the Media Standardized Name
standard, so we can publish what we have. There will be a registration
procedure, so if items are missed, they can be registered.
Two weeks from tomorrow (Wed, May 30), the 10-12 PDT telecon will be for IPP
FAX (more details and documents later).
IBM Media Type proposal from IBM:
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark VanderWiele [mailto:markv@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 15:59
To: Hastings, Tom N
Cc: Harry Lewis; don@lexmark.com; rbergma@hitachi-hkis.com;
hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com; shivaun_albright@hp.com
Subject: RE: Media List
Tom: First, yes the below list of media names need to somehow be
represented in the media name spec. This list was generated by a search
of media names which were use in printer drivers over the last 10 years
from a variety of printer manufactures. The names were originally provided
by the various printer manufactures to match medias that could be used with
the device. Since these name are used in existing drivers and in many
cases match the documentation that came with the printer or the actual
packaging on the media it would be best to add them with short discriptions
than elimanate them.
If a user buys HP PREMIUM PHOTO PAPER will they know to select GLOSSY,HIGH
GLOSS, SATIN, OR SEMIGLOSS. We have found it is best to have the common
names.
* MEDIA_NONE */ "None" realy means media default,
/* MEDIA_PLAIN */ "Plain - standard white multi-purpose
paper",
/* MEDIA_GLOSSY */ "Media that has Glossy coating",
/* MEDIA_SPECIAL */ "Special coated paper",
/* MEDIA_COATED */ "Standard Coated paper",
/* MEDIA_BACKPRINT */ "Transparent inside Window stickers -
prints backwards"
/* MEDIA_CLOTH */ "Used to print on Fabric",
/* MEDIA_THICK */ "Media slighty thiker and stiffer than
standard plain multi-purpose paper",
/* MEDIA_HIGH_GLOSS_FILM */ "High Gloss Film",
/* MEDIA_HIGH_RESOLUTION */ "High Resolution",
/* MEDIA_SPECIAL_360 */ "Special 360 used for 360 resolution
printing",
/* MEDIA_SPECIAL_720 */ "Special 720 used for 720 resolution
printing",
/* MEDIA_PLAIN_ENHANCED */ "Plain Enhanced",
/* MEDIA_IRON_ON */ "Iron-on - Media used for heat transfer
to fabric",
/* MEDIA_LABECA */ "Labeca",
/* MEDIA_THERMAL */ "Thermal paper",
/* MEDIA_CD_MASTER */ "CD-master", CD or CD label
/* MEDIA_CARDBOARD */ "Cardboard",
/* MEDIA_POSTCARD */ "Postcard",
/* MEDIA_PHOTOGRAPHIC_PAPER */ "Photographic Paper",
/* MEDIA_PHOTOGRAPHIC_LABEL */ "Photographic Label",
/* MEDIA_PREMIUM_PAPER */ "Premium Paper",
/* MEDIA_HP_PHOTOGRAPHIC_PAPER */ "HP Photographic Paper",
/* MEDIA_PREPRINTED */ "Preprinted"
/* MEDIA_LETTERHEAD */ "Letterhead"
/* MEDIA_PREPUNCHED */ "Prepunched"
/* MEDIA_BOND */ "Bond"
/* MEDIA_RECYCLED */ "Recycled"
/* MEDIA_ROUGH */ "Rough"
/* MEDIA_VELLUM */ "Vellum"
/* MEDIA_HEAVY */ "Heavy"
/* MEDIA_DRILLED */ "Drilled"
/* MEDIA_THICK_PAPER */ "Thick Paper"
/* MEDIA_PREMIUM_HEAVYWEIGHT */ "Premium InkJet Heavyweight"
/* MEDIA_PREMIUM_TRANSPARENCY */ "Premium Transparency"
/* MEDIA_PREMIUM_PHOTO */ "Premium Photo"
/* MEDIA_BROCHURE_GLOSSY */ "Brochure Glossy"
/* MEDIA_BROCHURE_MATTE */ "Brochure Matte"
/* MEDIA_THIN_PAPER */ "Thin Paper"
/* MEDIA_TOUGH */ "Tough"
/* MEDIA_SOFT_GLOSS_PAPER */ "Soft gloss paper"
Regards,
Mark VanderWiele
IBM, Linux Technology Center
512-838-4779, t/l 678
MARKV@IBMUS
email: markv@us.ibm.com
For comparison, the Draft 8 text, May 7, 2001, has the following description
for the Media Type Names:
Media Type Names
The standardized Media Type Names are defined in Table 1. The base set of
these names is derived from the Printer MIB [PRT-MIB] and "Media Features
for Display, Print, and Fax" [FEATURES] documents. Additional values MAY be
registered according to both [TAG-REG] and [IPP-MOD].
The Ref column indicates the source document(s) for the name.
1 = The Printer MIB [PRT-MIB].
3 = Media Features for Display, Print, and Fax [FEATURES].
5 = IPP Production Printing Attributes [IPP-PROD] The
name in this document is derived from the "media-front-coating" and
"media-back-coating" member attributes by adding the 'photographic-' prefix
to the IPP keyword values.
Table 1 - Standardized Media Type Names
Keyword
Description
Ref.
stationery
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material
1, 3
stationery-coated
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material with a coating of unspecified
type
stationery-inkjet
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material whose coating is designed to
minimize the spread of liquid inks
transparency
Separately cut sheets of a transparent material
1, 3
envelope
Envelopes that can be used for conventional mailing purposes
1, 3
envelope-plain
Envelopes that are not preprinted and have no windows
1, 3
envelope-window
Envelopes that have windows for addressing purposes
1
continuous
Continuously connected sheets of an opaque material - which edge is
connected is not specified
3
continuous-long
Continuously connected sheets of an opaque material connected along the long
edge
1
continuous-short
Continuously connected sheets of an opaque material connected along the
short edge
1
tab-stock
Media with tabs [either pre-cut or full-cut]
1
pre-cut-tabs
Media with tabs that are cut so that more than one tab is visible extending
out beyond the edge of non-tabbed media in an Output-Document.
full-cut-tabs
Media with a tab that runs the full length of the sheet so that only one
tab is visible extending out beyond the edge of non-tabbed media in an
Output-Document.
multi-part-form
Form medium composed of multiple layers not pre-attached to one another;
each sheet may be drawn separately from an input source
1
labels
Label stock [For example, a sheet of peel-off labels].
1
multi-layer
Form medium composed of multiple layers which are pre-attached to one
another; e.g., for use with impact printers.
1
screen
A refreshable display
3
screen-paged
A refreshable display which cannot scroll
3
photographic
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material to produce photographic quality
images. The coating is unspecified.
photographic-glossy
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "glossy" coating to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-high-gloss
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "high-gloss" coating
to produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-semi-gloss
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "semi-gloss" coating
to produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-satin
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "satin" coating to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-matte
Separately cut sheets of an opaque material that has a "matte" coating to
produce photographic quality images.
5
photographic-film
Separately cut sheets of film used to produce photographic quality images.
back-print-film
Separately cut sheet of a translucent film that the user can view with or
without backlighting.
cardstock
Separately cut sheets of a heavier or stiffer opaque material than
stationery
roll
A continuous roll of media with no predefined page separation points.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu May 17 2001 - 10:43:52 EDT