Hi,
No - definitions go only _once_ in the Counter Spec - those terms
(but NOT the definitions) can be imported in the Counter MIB.
It's NOT an objective that the Counter MIB can be read/used
free-standing (without the Counter Spec). If we restated the
actual definitions, we'd have to do so in the Counter Schema
and other future mappings. All error-prone and bad standards
practice.
The time to fix the definition of 'full-color impressions'
was six years ago in the Job MIB. The semantics are locked
down by the Job MIB (and by the PWG Semantic Model/1.0).
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Lynne Wagner [mailto:LynneWagner@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:21 PM
> To: 'McDonald, Ira'; 'Bergman, Ron'; wims@pwg.org
> Cc: 'Harry Lewis (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
>
>
> Ira,
>
> I am sorry that I am not communicating. I am not arguing to change the
> meanings of terms; rather the opposite. As I stated
> previously, the Counter
> does NOT explicitly define the MIB terms that Ron identified.
> Table 4.2.1
> etc deal with impressions and images, where the "descriptions" are not
> subject to misunderstanding, not with media sheets, where the
> descriptions
> in the MIB certainly are subject to mis-understanding. The
> only implicit
> definitions of the various media sheets are in table 4.3 Media Used.
> Granting the intent that "The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of
> abstract counters whose semantics are normatively defined in
> the Counter
> Spec", perhaps this discussion should be about inconsistency
> in mapping.
>
> In any case, the MIB Descriptions for media sheets variations suggest
> meanings that are different from the counter spec. Resolution
> may be to
> ensure that the exact terms are defined in the Counter spec
> and to have the
> Counter MIB Descriptions refer to the counter spec.
> Alternatively, the MIB
> descriptions may be modified to agree with the implicit
> definitions in the
> counter spec.
>
> Taking Ron as an example of an intelligent MIB reader, note that his
> interpretation of full color printing does not clearly
> reflect the Counter
> Spec concept that full-color is the printing of any non-black
> colorant (a
> non-intuitive definition). I therefore suggest that there would be an
> advantage including a useful description in the MIB.
>
> Bill Wagner
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org] On
> Behalf Of McDonald,
> Ira
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:05 PM
> To: 'Bergman, Ron'; wims@pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
>
> Hi Ron and Bill,
>
> Three points:
>
> (1) The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of abstract counters
> whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter Spec.
>
> (2) The entire section 1.2 'Imaging Terminology' in the Counter MIB
> should be _deleted_ and replaced with a single sentence that
> states the names of terms imported normatively from the Counter
> Spec.
>
> (3) All issues on definitions must be resolved in the Counter Spec.
>
> The Counter Spec _does_ define 'black impressions', etc., in section
> 4.2.1 'Job Counters Table'. Those definitions are exactly aligned
> with the definitions in the Job MIB (RFC 2707) and IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911)
> which are already part of the PWG Semantic Model/1.0 and are NOT
> subject to change in their meaning (though examples are permissible
> in the Counter Spec).
>
> We've already debated (at previous PWG face-to-face meetings) and
> WIMS teleconferences whether definitions can be changed. And agreed
> that they MUST NOT be changed to conflict with the deployed Job MIB
> and IPP job progress extensions.
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman@rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:56 AM
> > To: McDonald, Ira; wims@pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> >
> >
> > Ira,
> >
> > Sorry for my confusion here, but can you tell me where
> > 'black media sheet' is defined? I could not find this
> > in the Counter's spec.
> >
> > If someone says to me 'black media sheet', I would believe
> > (incorrectly I guess) they were talking about a black sheet
> > of paper, not a sheet printed with black toner. Note that
> > I am not concerned with the object name, just the
> > description clause.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:09 AM
> > To: Bergman, Ron; wims@pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); McDonald, Ira
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> >
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > The first is a good catch - thanks.
> >
> > The rest are rewordings that attempt to tersely redefine
> > what a 'black media sheet' (for example) means. The
> > Counter MIB normatively imports these definitions from
> > the Counter Spec. The rewordings are possibly dangerous
> > and add no value (in my opinion). It is NOT the business
> > of the Counter MIB to redefine these terms at variance
> > with the Counter Spec.
> >
> > My two cents,
> > - Ira
> >
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman@rpsa.ricoh.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:25 PM
> > To: wims@pwg.org
> > Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); Ira McDonald (E-mail 3)
> > Subject: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> >
> >
> > I have two comments on this document.
> > 1. Invalid examples in the description clause for:
> > icKeySubunitType The text "(e.g., print, copy, etc.)" is incorrect
> > for this object. Should be "(e.g., inputTray, outputBin, etc.)".
> > 2. Unclear wording in the description clauses for:
> > icSheetBlackSheets:
> > Current:
> > "Black media sheets printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g.,
> > 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant."
> > icSheetBlankSheets
> > Current:
> > "Blank media sheets printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g.,
> > 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image."
> > icSheetFullColorSheets
> > Current:
> > "Full color media sheets printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g.,
> > 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color."
> > icSheetHighlightColorSheets
> > Current:
> > "Highlight color media sheets printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g.,
> > 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color."
> > icMediaUsedBlackSheets
> > Current:
> > "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service
> > (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed
> subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant."
> > icMediaUsedBlankSheets
> > Current:
> > "Blank sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service
> > (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed
> subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image."
> > icMediaUsedFullColorSheets
> > Current:
> > "Full color sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service
> > (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed
> subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color."
> > icMediaUsedHighlightColorSheets
> > Current:
> > "Highlight color sheets of this specific media
> > printed by this
> > managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print')
> > or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')."
> > Suggested:
> > "Sheets of this specific media printed by this
> > managed service
> > (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed
> subunit (e.g.,
> > 'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color."
> > Ron Bergman
> > Ricoh Printing Systems America
> >
>
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