RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions

From: Harry Lewis (harryl@us.ibm.com)
Date: Thu Jul 13 2006 - 15:08:04 EDT

  • Next message: Harry Lewis: "RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions"

    I thought it sounded familiar... that we had gone through these media
    attributes before. Indeed, it was in 5100.3 where we in the media
    "collection". I've never liked the use of collection but the media
    semantics should be useful (reusable in some sense in an updated Counter
    Spec).
    ----------------------------------------------
    Harry Lewis
    IBM STSM
    Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
    http://www.pwg.org
    IBM Printing Systems
    http://www.ibm.com/printers
    303-924-5337
    ----------------------------------------------

    "Stuart Rowley" <Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com>
    Sent by: owner-wims@pwg.org
    07/10/2006 09:21 AM

    To
    "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com>, <wamwagner@comcast.net>
    cc
    <wims@pwg.org>
    Subject
    RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions

    Bill and Ira,
     
    A unique media key seems necessary to me. I have looked at 5100.3, and it
    seems it would take careful study for me to understand the implementation
    of media key in this document. I just didn?t get it in a quick pass.
     
    Thanks,
     
    Stuart
     
    Stuart Rowley
    Kyocera Technology Development
     

    From: lynnewagner@comcast.net [mailto:lynnewagner@comcast.net]
    Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:03 PM
    To: McDonald, Ira; 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; Stuart Rowley
    Cc: wims@pwg.org
    Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions
     
    Hello Ira,
     
    Yes, that sounds good. Do we have any comments from the list?
     
    Bill Wagner
      

    --
A. Lynne Wagner, EdD, MSN, RN 
Consultant, Nurse Career and Mentor Coach 
Phone: 978-764-3982 
E-Mail: lynnewagner@comcast.net 
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> 
Hi Bill,
 
The best solution would be to lead '...MediaInfo' as descriptive and
add a new attribute '...MediaKey' (see PWG 5100.3) that IS unique.
 
This wants some consideration and discussion.
 
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:34 PM
To: McDonald, Ira; 'Stuart Rowley'
Cc: wims@pwg.org
Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions
Ira,
 
Understood. That is a problem with not prototyping, although there is no 
guarentee that all issues will be found  when prototyping. So, pending 
further discoveries, perhaps we should consider an errata to the counter 
spec? I take it that we would add another object, with 
'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' being redefined and retyped as a media qualifier 
and (perhaps) ''icMediaUsedMediaDescrip" being added for user infomation?
 
Bill Wagner
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> 
Hi Bill,
 
I agree that 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' is overloaded with two probably
incompatible uses, but it isn't the MIB that did this overloading.  This
is a bug in the PWG Candidate Standard Imaging System Counters
(PWG 5106.1) - see section 5.3 on the bottom of page 27.
 
This bug cannot be fixed in the MIB independently, without revision 
of the source document's element semantics.
 
Cheers,
- Ira
 
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:36 PM
To: McDonald, Ira; 'Stuart Rowley'
Cc: wims@pwg.org
Subject: Re: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions
OK. Ira, it seems that you agree with Stuart that: 
icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString and
icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString
both are not localized. 
 
The former is a PWG 5101.1 defined keyword; the latter is freeform in that 
it is not a public-spec defined keyword, but operationally should be one 
of a set of strings defined for use in a particular environment or with  a 
particular application.
 
This appears to overload icMediaUsedMediaInfo as both a qualifying 
descriptor for media identification and as a description for human 
consumption.
 
Since the MIB is informational only (pending prototyping), and Stuart may 
be doing the prototyping, I would suggest that we collect the issues 
discovered during this effort and define an updated version of the MIB for 
resubmission as a candidate standard. 
 
Bill Wagner
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> 
Hi Stuart,
 
The ASCII keyword in '...SizeName' should NOT be localized, 
but the equivalent elements in '...MediaInfo' ARE supposed to 
be localized.
 
But, because '...MediaInfo' in the Abstact Counter spec (PWG 
5106.1) and Counter MIB is required for the key distinguishing 
two instances of the same size media (e.g., by color), it's highly
undesirable to change the value of '...MediaInfo' when the printer
locale changes -  lousy side effects for accounting applications.
 
Bill - I consider this a probable errata against the Counter MIB.
 
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Rowley [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:07 PM
To: McDonald, Ira
Cc: wims@pwg.org
Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions
Hi Ira,
 
Thanks for the quick reply. 
 
The description for icMediaUsedMediaSizeName says:
 
"The media size self-describing name for this specific media,
for use with remote network management scripts and GUIs,
specified as a Unicode string encoded in UTF-8 (RFC 3629)
in the language specified in 'icGeneralNaturalLanguage'.
 
...so would this ASCII keyword be localized...?
 
Thanks,
 
Stuart

    From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:47 PM
To: Stuart Rowley; McDonald, Ira
Cc: 'wims@pwg.org'
Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions
 
Hi Stuart,
 
I copied the WIMS list, so others could see my remarks and chime in.
 
The significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName being DisplayString is
that it MUST be strict ASCII (it's a _keyword_ that follows the format in
PWG 5101.1, not a free form name - even a custom size name has a
format and MUST be strict ASCII).
 
icMediaUsedMediaInfo is a description that makes '...SizeName' unique for 
instances of different (but same size) media.  Because the IETF leaned
on us hard to make all future MIB descriptive strings be 
internationalized,
it's of type SnmpAdminString (UTF-8) and localized.
 
Now - nothing prevents you from making the "localized" media info in
Kyocera products be of the form:
 
  media-info = english-media-identifier ":" localized-description
 
So that your accounting applications use the invariant identifier and
save the localized-description (if at all) in a separate database field
that's informational.
 
Or you could cheat (I don't recommend this) and leave the value of
icGeneralNaturalLanguage empty and just support all descriptive
fields in US-English only (the default) - I _really_ don't recommend
this approach, because it's not very customer-friendly.
 
Hope this helps,
- Ira
 
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Rowley [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:47 PM
To: McDonald, Ira
Subject: Counters MIB questions
Hi Ira,
 
I hope you had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend. 
 
I have a couple questions about the Counters spec and MIB regarding media 
used.
 
There are 3 objects used to describe the media size and type.
icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString,
icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString,
icMediaUsedMediaName SnmpAdminString
 
What is the significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName using DisplayString 
and the others using SnmpAdminString?
 
In the MIB it lists all three as being localized, but it seems only 
icMediaUsedMediaName should be localized. I need icMediaUsedMediaSizeName 
and icMediaUsedMediaInfo to be used by our accounting apps to identify the 
size and type for billing purposes. This would be hard to achieve using 
localized strings. Our apps would need to read standardized names from 
these two objects. Am I missing something?
 
Thanks,
 
Stuart
 
Stuart Rowley
Network Product Mgr.
Kyocera Technology Development
 
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