From: McDonald, Ira (imcdonald@sharplabs.com)
Date: Wed Apr 04 2007 - 19:12:15 EDT
Hi Walt,
[Copied from my other email account <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>]
Inline replies to your most recent note below.
Cheers,
- Ira
PS - Currently, notes from Walt at Samsung appear to
be blocked by a Sharp Labs spam filter - Craig and I are
looking into this - if anyone should see a note from Walt
to me at my Sharp Labs address that I haven't answered
please forward it directly to me - thanks.
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
email: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Filbrich [mailto:w.filbrich@samsung.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:31 PM
> To: 'McDonald, Ira'; 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; 'Farrell, Lee'; 'wims@pwg.org'
> Cc: 'thrasher@lexmark.com'; 'Harry Lewis'
> Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB v1 - PWG Informational status
>
> Hello Ira,
>
> I asked about implementing managed subunits because I'm not sure how many
> features of the Counter MIB need to be implemented to allow us to say that
> is has been prototyped.
<ira>
Excellent question - when we developed the PWG Process/2.0
we purposely did NOT specify just "how much constitutes a
prototype" (unlike the IETF or ISO), because we just wanted
at least one PARTIAL prototype before advancing to PWG
Candidate Standard - implement as little as you want, based
on the minimal requirements of the 'icMIBCompliance' macro.
</ira>
>
> Another question on implementation:
>
> A COPY job requires both scanning and printing. I assumed that this will
> require entries in both the Imaging Group and the Impressions Group
> associated with the COPY Service key.
>
> The Counter MIB Spec, section 6.2, lists the counters associated with the
> COPY service. There are no image counters listed, only impression
> counters. Does this mean I cannot have an Image Counter associated with the
> COPY service?
<ira>
ANY service can implement extra counters - the Abstract Counter
spec (and the Counter MIB) tried to specify just the _minimum_
required counters for each service (i.e., only one unit of work).
</ira>
>
> Relative to the icWorkType for counters, is the "WorkTotals type mandatory
> and the other work types optional?
<ira>
Yes - only 'workTotals(3)' is required - this should be described
in the MIB (though hard to do, because the work type is an INDEX
and therefore can't have an OBJECT clause in the MODULE-COMPLIANCE
macro, because it's not a visible object).
The authoritative implementation requirements are specified in
Section 8 starting on page 43 of the PWG Abstract Counters spec
"cs-wimscount10-20050923-5106.1.pdf".
</ira>
>
> Thanks,
>
> /Walt
>
> Walter Filbrich
> Principal Engineer
> Advanced Printing Software Lab
> Samsung Information Systems America
> 3345 Michelson Drive, Suite 350
> Irvine, CA 92612
>
> Tel: 949 797 8085
> Fax: 949 797 8099
> w.filbrich@samsung.com
>
> This message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
> contain confidential or privileged information or protected attorney work
> product. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination,
> distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this
> message and its attachments from your computer and dispose of all other
> copies or printouts. Thank you.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org] On Behalf Of McDonald,
> Ira
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:33 AM
> To: McDonald, Ira; wamwagner@comcast.net; Walter Filbrich; Farrell, Lee;
> wims@pwg.org
> Cc: thrasher@lexmark.com; Harry Lewis
> Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB v1 - PWG Informational status
>
> Hi Walt,
>
> OOPS - forgot to answer your first question, to whit:
>
> 1) Is it OK to have only managed services (e.g. Print, Copy,
> etc) and not have any managed subunits?
>
> YES - In fact you don't have to implement ANY specific
> managed service entries - just one for the special type
> "systemTotals(3)" (for the system rollup counters).
>
> Please note that DESCRIPTION clauses in OBJECT-TYPE
> macros are Informative. The only Normative conformance
> statements in any MIB are in the MODULE-COMPLIANCE
> macro and GROUP and OBJECT clauses (for any optional
> or conditionally mandatory groups or objects).
>
> See "icMIBCompliance" on page 50 of the Counter MIB v1
> spec "info-wimscountmib10-20051223.pdf".
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org]On Behalf Of
> McDonald, Ira
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 10:50 AM
> To: wamwagner@comcast.net; Walter Filbrich; Farrell, Lee; wims@pwg.org
> Cc: thrasher@lexmark.com; Harry Lewis
> Subject: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB v1 - PWG Informational status
>
>
> Hi Walt,
>
> Inline comments to your questions below.
>
> By the way, I never received your questions in the first
> place - what email address did you send them to, please?
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:19 PM
> To: Walter Filbrich; McDonald, Ira; 'Farrell, Lee'
> Cc: thrasher@lexmark.com; 'Harry Lewis'
> Subject: RE: Counter MIB v1 - PWG Informational status
>
>
> Walter,
>
> Thanks for your interesting comment. This would suggest that the working
> group really ought to spend some time on Ira's MIB. As you know, although
> the printer MIB does require some groups of the hrMIB to be supported, it
> does not require any part of hrSWxxx. Further, although I cannot say that
> no printer supports this, I have not seen a mib walk of any one that does.
> The counter MIB statement appears to suugest that such support is part of
> hrMib support for printers, and as such is misleading.
>
> Bill Wagner
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Walter Filbrich <w.filbrich@samsung.com>
>
> > Hello Ira,
> >
> > I have the following questions relative to prototyping the Counter MIB:
> >
> > 1) Is it OK to have only managed services (e.g. Print, Copy, etc) and not
> > have any managed subunits?
> > 2) On page 8 of the MIB spec, in the definition of icKeyServiceIndex,
> under
> > "Description", there is the following statement:
> >
> > "If an Imaging System also implements the Host Resources MIB
> > (RFC 1514/2790) then the value of 'icKeyServiceIndex' for each
> > configured managed service SHOULD be the same as the value of
> > 'hrSWRunIndex' and 'hrSWInstalledIndex' for that service.".
> >
> > Does this imply that we need an entry for hrSWInstalled in the Host
> > Resources MIB? We implement the H ost Resources MIB, but do not have
> entries
> > for hrSWInstalled. .
>
> <ira>
> No - I'll improve that description, which was meant to be
> conditional on the implementation option of _both_ the HR MIB
> and the HRSWxxx tables in the HR MIB.
>
> The Counter MIB does NOT require (or need) the implementation
> of the Printer MIB or Finisher MIB.
> </ira>
>
>
> >
> > - Should there be entries in the Host Resources MIB for hrSWInstalled" for
>
> > an MFP (supporting COPY, Scan etc) or is this optional?
>
> <ira>
> It's all optional - but, if you choose to implement a row
> for the Print software/firmware, then it seems appropriate
> to also implement a row for Scan, Copy, Fax, etc.
>
> Please note that the Counter MIB is talking about Print
> _Service_, NOT the Print Device - that's by design in the
> PWG Abstract Counter spec, which purposely ignores devices.
> </ira>
>
>
> >
> > - If hrSWInstalled is optional, can we use any unused index for
> > icKeyServiceIndex?
>
> <ira>
> Yes - you can use any value you choose - they do NOT have to
> be contiguous.
> </ira>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > /Walt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Walter Filbrich
> > Principal Engineer
> > Advanced Printing Software Lab
> > Samsung Information Systems America
> > 3345 Michelson Drive, Suite 350
> > Irvine, CA 92612
> >
> > Tel: 949 797 8085
> > Fax: 949 797 8099
> > w.filbrich@samsung.com
> >
> > This message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
> > contain confidential or privileged information or protected attorney work
> > product. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, diss eminat
> ion,
> > distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this
> > message and its attachments from your computer and dispose of all other
> > copies or printouts. Thank you.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:22 AM
> > To: Farrell, Lee; Walter Filbrich; McDonald, Ira
> > Cc: wamwagner@comcast.net; thrasher@lexmark.com; Harry Lewis
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB v1 - PWG Informational status
> >
> > Hi Walt and Lee,
> >
> > Actually the Counter MIB v1 was Formally Approved (by vote)
> > as a PWG Informational specification (rather than Candidate
> > Standard, because we didn't have a prototype) and published
> > on the PWG FTP server in the directory:
> >
> > ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/in format ional
> >
> > in the files:
> >
> > info-wimscountmib10-20051223.doc
> > info-wimscountmib10-20051223.mib
> > info-wimscountmib10-20051223.pdf
> >
> >
> > *** PWG Officers - note that the PWG website doesn't have any
> > link to our quite a few formally approved PWG Informational
> > specs (e.g., all of our Requirements specs since PSI) - this
> > seems a rather high-profile oversight. ***
> >
> >
> > Recently, while preparing the draft for Counter MIB v2
> > (which I'll publish within the next week, by the way),
> > I found small documentation errors in the Description
> > clauses of a few 'icMediaUsedTable' objects.
> >
> > Counter MIB v2 will be 100% backward compatible with
> > Counter MIB v1, but will add five new objects:
> >
> > icMediaUsedMediaAccountingKey
> > appended to icMediaUsedTable
> >
> > icServiceState and icServiceStateMessage > appended to icServiceTable
> >
> > icSubunitStatus and icSubunitStatusMessage
> > appended to icSubunitTable
> >
> > And one entirely new table:
> >
> > icSubunitMapTable
> > to map services to their subunits (since more
> > than one service may share the same subunit)
> >
> > Walt - if your Samsung team can prototype the Counter
> > MIB v2, then it can move (via PWG Last Call and Formal
> > Approval vote) to Candidate Standard status.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Ira
> >
> >
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> > phone: +1-906-494-2434
> > email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Farrell, Lee [mailto:Lee.Farrell@cda.canon.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:15 PM
> > ; To: Walter Filbrich
> > Cc: McDonald, Ira; wamwagner@comcast.net
> > Subject: RE: Counter MIB
> >
> >
> > Hi Walt,
> >
> > Glad to hear about Samsung's interest in this!
> >
> > [I have copied two people on this response that are most knowledgeable
> > about the Counter MIB -- Bill Wagner (WIMS WG Chair) and Ira McDonald
> > (all-around doer of good works on this spec). Hopefully one or both of
> > them will pick up this thread with you and carry it forward.]
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, the Counter MIB is in the state of
> > "post-Candidate Standard update". There was a recent change to the
> > document which should be resulting in another approval round soon.
> > (Bill/Ira -- is this correct?) Based on a status slide at the Feb
> > meeting, "Steering Committee recommendation to republish after WG
> > approval and PWG Call for Objections"
> >
> > And yes, the spec is in nee d of prototyping. The latest draft is at:
> > ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimscount10-20070212.pdf (and
> > .doc).
> >
> > Please feel free to discuss this in more detail with Bill and/or Ira.
> > They are much closer to the detailed goings-on than I am.
> >
> > I've attached an email that discusses the recent changes.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Walter Filbrich [mailto:]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:38 AM
> > To: Farrell, Lee
> > Subject: Counter MIB
> >
> >
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> >
> >
> > I know there have been several recent modifications to the Counter spec
> > and these will be reflected in the Counter MIB. In reviewing the
> > previous meeting minutes, I realized that I am not sure about the status
> > if the Counter MIB itself. Is this MIB in Draft state? Has it be en
> > prototyped or is there a request for it to be prototyped? Can you send
> > me a link to the Counter MIB? I am trying to make a case at Samsung
> > that we should volunteer to prototype some of the PWG requests, but I'm
> > not sure if the Counter MIB falls into that category.
> >
> >
> >
> > /Walt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Walter Filbrich
> > Principal Engineer
> > Advanced Printing Software Lab
> > Samsung Information Systems America
> > 3345 Michelson Drive, Suite 350
> > Irvine, CA 92612
> >
> > Tel: 949 797 8085
> > Fax: 949 797 8099
> > w.filbrich@samsung.com
> >
> > This message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
> > contain confidential or privileged information or protected attorney
> > work product. If you are not the intended recipient, any review,
> > dissemination, distribution or copyin g is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this message in error, please immediately notify the
> > sender and delete this message and its attachments from your computer
> > and dispose of all other copies or printouts. Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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>
> > 1:36 PM
> >
> >
> >
>
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