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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=906374617-20062001>Ira wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=906374617-20062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=906374617-20062001> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>PS - What I don't like about Sender and Receiver (I finally realized) is that in protocol specs</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>they refer to messages - but here in IPP Fax you mean JOB Sender and JOB Receiver.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001><SPAN class=906374617-20062001></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001><SPAN class=906374617-20062001>But the Sender also issues Get-Printer-Attributes (as part of sending a job), so I don't think we should make the term be "Job Sender", but just explain that in this standard, the Sender is the client that sends requests as part of submitting IPPFAX jobs, OK?</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001><SPAN class=906374617-20062001></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001><SPAN class=906374617-20062001>Tom</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> McDonald, Ira <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 18, 2001 16:27<BR><B>To:</B> Hastings, Tom N; 'jpulera@minolta-mil.com'<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'IPP-Fax Group'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IFX> some UIF issues...thoughts anyone? [terminology: Client vs. Sender and Host vs. Receiver]<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>Hi Tom,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>I vastly prefer 'printer-uif-capabilities'.  I don't like unscoped Printer object attributes</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>like 'uif-capabilities'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>- Ira</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>PS - What I don't like about Sender and Receiver (I finally realized) is that in protocol specs</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=810102523-18062001>they refer to messages - but here in IPP Fax you mean JOB Sender and JOB Receiver.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Hastings, Tom N <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 18, 2001 6:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Hastings, Tom N; jpulera@minolta-mil.com; McDonald, Ira<BR><B>Cc:</B> IPP-Fax Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IFX> some UIF issues...thoughts anyone? [terminology: Client vs. Sender and Host vs. Receiver]<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>An additional attribute name affected by whether we continue to use the term IPPFAX Receiver or change it to IPPFAX Printer, is the "uif-conneg" (octetString32k) Printer Description attribute that we agreed on the May 30 telecon to rename to: "uif-receiver-capabilities" (octetString32k).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If we decide to change the terminology from IPPFAX Receiver to IPPFAX Printer, we should change this Printer Description attribute name (again) to one of:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"uif-printer-capabilities", or "printer-uif-capabilities", or just "uif-capabilities".</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Comments?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=057465521-18062001><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV></FONT></SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 18, 2001 14:27<BR><B>To:</B> jpulera@minolta-mil.com; Ira at Xerox XR&T McDonald (E-mail)<BR><B>Cc:</B> IPP-Fax Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IFX> some UIF issues...thoughts anyone? [terminology: Client vs. Sender and Host vs. Receiver]<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=175082221-18062001>Ira is suggesting IPPFAX Server, instead of IPPFAX Receiver or IPPFAX Printer.  (We're all in agreement *not* to use "host").</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=175082221-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=175082221-18062001>However, to me a Server can act as a Sender or a Receiver, so I like the terms Sender and Receiver, because they are more clearly *roles* that hosts and servers can play.  The conformance requirements of Sender vs. Receiver apply to the role.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=175082221-18062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=175082221-18062001>Tom</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 18, 2001 13:56<BR><B>To:</B> jpulera@minolta-mil.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> IPP-Fax Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IFX> some UIF issues...thoughts anyone? [terminology: Client vs. Sender and Host vs. Receiver]<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>On the second issue, I believe the original issue from the minutes was whether to use the IPP/1.1 terminology for IPPFAX Sender and IPPFAX Receiver, which would be IPPFAX Client and IPPFAX Printer, not IPPFAX Host.  To me the term Host is much too vague.  To me a Host could be a sender or a receiver.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So I'm quite opposed to using the term "Host".  Whether to continue using the IPPFAX terms Sender and Receiver or go back to the IPP/1.1 terms of Client and Printer is harder to decide.  If we go back to the IPP Client and Printer terms we would make it clear that the term Printer means the software entity that accepts requests and returns responses, as in IPP, and need not actually have any hardware associated at all.  The advantage of the term Receiver, is that no hardware is suggested by the name.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>However, the problem with using the term "receiver" is that it affects the names of some of the attributes ("receiver" vs. "printer").  Also we are stuck with the IPP/1.1 terminology of Printer Description attributes and the 'printer-description' attribute group name used as a keyword in the Get-Printer-Attributes request.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The attribute names affected are:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=383413920-18062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3></FONT> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389244">5.1<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-sending-user-identity (text(MAX)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">9</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389245">5.2<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-receiving-user-identity (text(MAX)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">9</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389246">5.3<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-sender-identity (name(255)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">10</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389247">5.4<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-receiver-identity (name(255)) Printer Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">10</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink></SPAN> </P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><SPAN class=383413920-18062001>We should still keep the terms Sending User and Receiving User, but we could change the terms Sender to Client and Receiver to Printer.</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><SPAN class=383413920-18062001>Then the attributes would be named:</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><SPAN class=383413920-18062001> </P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389244">5.1<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-sending-user-identity (text(MAX)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">9</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389245">5.2<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-receiving-user-identity (text(MAX)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">9</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389246">5.3<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-<SPAN class=383413920-18062001>client</SPAN>-identity (name(255)) operation/Job Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">10</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><A href="outbind://6/#_Toc515389247">5.4<SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">            </SPAN></SPAN>ippfax-<SPAN class=383413920-18062001>printer</SPAN>-identity (name(255)) Printer Description attribute<SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">  </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen">10</SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none; COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none; mso-hide: screen"></SPAN></A></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink></SPAN> </P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><SPAN class=383413920-18062001>Comments?</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoToc2><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink><SPAN class=383413920-18062001>Tom</SPAN></SPAN></P></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John Pulera [mailto:jpulera@minolta-mil.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 07, 2001 09:45<BR><B>To:</B> IPP-Fax Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> IFX> some UIF issues...thoughts anyone?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>While revising the UIF spec, some issues have surfaced and it would be great if we <SPAN class=783301116-07062001>can generate some discussion on them</SPAN>:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>1) The MIME type for UIF data</STRONG>.<BR>        From the IPPFAX teleconferences held on May 30 & June 6, there was consensus to use "image/tiff; application=faxbw" and "image/tiff; application=faxcolor". The primary argument for using these was that it is the same MIME type used for Internet Fax, and so there would be less of a conformance issue with an IPPFAX device serving as a gateway for Internet Fax documents.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>        However...If we are going to make UIF a protocol-independent data format (which was also agreed at the May 30 telecon), I do not think think we should directly associate it with Internet Fax. Perhaps "image/tiff; application=uif" would be a better compromise in that UIF would be made independent of Internet Fax while existing TIFF readers can still do something with the UIF data.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>        In addition, is it valid to use the same MIME type as Internet Fax if the data requirements for UIF and TIFF-FX are not identical?  (TIFF-FX is more strict with resolutions and allowed image widths)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001><STRONG>2) The use of the terms "Client" to mean the "Sender" and "Host" to mean the "Receiver".</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>    Is "Client" interchangeable with "Sender" and "Host" with "Receiver"? Should we be using the more generic terms "Client" and "Host" instead of "Sender" and "Receiver" in the UIF spec since the UIF spec is NOT protocol-specific?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>Does anyone have any thoughts on these issues?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=783301116-07062001>John</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>