IPP> FW: Copyright statements in drafts

IPP> FW: Copyright statements in drafts

IPP> FW: Copyright statements in drafts

don at lexmark.com don at lexmark.com
Sun Jul 11 14:16:21 EDT 2004

It seems to me saying "of which I am aware" and then "in accordance with 
RFC 3668"  in the I-D would explicitly qualify awareness to be "reasonably 
and personally known to the submitter."

If you don't know about it then it can't be held against you.  How could 
you reasonably and personally be aware of a patent held by someone else 
unless you spend your days trolling the various countries patent databases 
or someone has told you about it?

Don Wright                 don at lexmark.com 
Chair,  IEEE SA Standards Board 
Member, IEEE-ISTO Board of Directors 
f.wright at ieee.org / f.wright at computer.org 
Director, Alliances and Standards 
Lexmark International 
740 New Circle Rd C14/082-3 
Lexington, Ky 40550 
859-825-4808 (phone) 603-963-8352 (fax) 

"McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald at sharplabs.com>
Sent by: owner-ipp at pwg.org
07/10/2004 12:57 PM

        To:     "'carl at manros.com'" <carl at manros.com>, "Ipp at Pwg. Org" <ipp at pwg.org>
        Subject:        RE: IPP> FW: Copyright statements in drafts


Harald Alvestrand replied to Carl-Uno Manros (see below):

  We do - which is why the phrase "reasonably and personally known to 
  the submitter" in RFC 3667 / 3668 is so important.

But "reasonably and personally" is NOT part of the IPR statement 
required at the beginning of every submitted I-D (without which 
the I-D Editor will no longer publish any I-D).

Here's the relevant verbatim quote from "1id-guidelines.txt":

  All Internet-Drafts must begin with the following intellectual
  property rights (IPR) statement:

  "By submitting this Internet-Draft, I certify that any applicable
  patent or other IPR claims of which I am aware have been disclosed, or
  will be disclosed, and any of which I become aware will be disclosed,
  in accordance with RFC 3668."

Personally, I'm not writing any more I-Ds.  Because there's not any
limitation in this IPR boilerplate about patents or IPR of _other_
parties that the editor may be or become aware of.

- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ipp at pwg.org [mailto:owner-ipp at pwg.org]On Behalf Of
carl at manros.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 3:22 AM
To: Ipp at Pwg. Org
Subject: IPP> FW: Copyright statements in drafts


Regarding some of the new required text in Internet Drafts.

This has been discussed for a while on the IETF Chairs list.

I raised a similar qustion to the one brougth up by Ira.

See my question and the official answer from the IETF Chair Harald
Alvestrand below.


Carl-Uno Manros
700 Carnegie Street #3724
Henderson, NV 89052, USA
Tel +1-702-617-9414
Fax +1-702-617-9417
Mob +1-702-525-0727
Email carl at manros.com
Web    www.manros.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald at alvestrand.no]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:02 AM
To: carl at manros.com; wgchairs at ietf.org
Subject: RE: Copyright statements in drafts

--On 3. juni 2004 15:49 -0700 carl at manros.com wrote:

> Hi,
> I am not sure whether I missed this in the discussion, but I can see 
> problems with Copyright statements in early drafts. There may well be
> people or organizations which already hold patents or copyrights for
> things that find their way into I-Ds. If they are not actively involved
> in that particular WG, they may not discover any infringements until the
> RFC is in IETF wide Last Call. Hopefully we provide for Copyright
> objections at that stage, even if there has been umpteen earlier I-Ds on
> the subject.

We do - which is why the phrase "reasonably and personally known to the
submitter" in RFC 3667 / 3668 is so important.


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