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My goal is not to make things more complicated so I would propose "print-ink-save" and let the implementation decide what or how, as you suggest. My main point is that "toner-saver" is too concrete a concept in too many implementations for it not to be explicit.   As far as choosing a name - Toner, vs, Ink, vs Glop... whatever... ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> Sent by: owner-ipp@pwg.org 07/12/2003 10:40 AM <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td valign=top>Harry Lewis/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com> <tr> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td valign=top>"IPP Discussion List (IPP@pwg.org)" <IPP@pwg.org>, printing-driver@freestandards.org, printing-jobticket@freestandards.org, "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com> <tr> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td valign=top>RE: IPP> Print Quality Issue resolution</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> <tt>Hi Harry, Not a flat set - we already had a multi-attribute set of (at least): 1)  print-quality 2)  printer-resolution 3)  media They interact to produce the desired print quality, as Pete observed. Having said that, since "print-content-optimize" now ONLY enumerates document content metadata, yes I'd be happy to add another new attribute:    print-ink-save (boolean) Bob Taylor and others have correctly pointed out that 'toner' is only used in laser printing - 'ink' or 'marker' or something else is used in the other printing processes. Cheers, - Ira McDonald  High North Inc -----Original Message----- From: Harry Lewis [mailto:harryl@us.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:49 AM To: Zehler, Peter Cc: IPP Discussion List (IPP@pwg.org); printing-driver@freestandards.org; printing-jobticket@freestandards.org; Zehler, Peter Subject: RE: IPP> Print Quality Issue resolution My concern is that "save toner" is probably the most concrete concept compared to "Good, Better, Best" or "Text, Image, Graphics". The later has efficient application only in special cases (some of which may be very significant, like printing photo's). Otherwise, people stare at their mixed object document and wonder. I feel "save toner" should be explicit. We went from a flat set of descriptors to a pairing.. perhaps we should really go to a matrix (although I don't like the perceived complexity) Good - Better - Best Text - Text+Graphics - Graphics - Image TonerSaving ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com> 07/11/2003 04:54 AM ToHarry Lewis/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com> cc"IPP Discussion List (IPP@pwg.org)" <IPP@pwg.org>, printing-driver@freestandards.org, printing-jobticket@freestandards.org SubjectRE: IPP> Print Quality Issue resolution Harry, We felt that there are many different attributes involved in heuristics for saving toner and printing fast.  Some of those are "resolution", "media" and aspects of the document content.  We felt the requirements were met by keeping the existing "print-quality" values and augmenting them with hints on how to process the document content to achieve 'draft' 'normal' and 'high'.  The assumption is that draft is fastest and uses the least toner. Pete   Peter Zehler XEROX Xerox Innovation Group Email: PZehler@crt.xerox.com Voice:    (585) 265-8755 FAX:      (585) 422-7961 US Mail: Peter Zehler        Xerox Corp.       800 Phillips Rd.       M/S 128-25E       Webster NY, 14580-9701 -----Original Message----- From: Harry Lewis [mailto:harryl@us.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:26 PM To: Zehler, Peter Cc: IPP Discussion List (IPP@pwg.org); printing-driver@freestandards.org; printing-jobticket@freestandards.org Subject: Re: IPP> Print Quality Issue resolution   > We finally agreed that the two values 'save-toner' and 'speed' are implied by the "print-quality".  Since they were not required, they were removed. I think this warrants further examination. I have known toner saving methods that do a very good job of preserving print quality. ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com> Sent by: owner-ipp@pwg.org 07/10/2003 01:41 PM To"IPP Discussion List (IPP@pwg.org)" <IPP@pwg.org>, printing-jobticket@freestandards.org, printing-driver@freestandards.org cc   SubjectIPP> Print Quality Issue resolution     All, During the PWG/FSG meeting in Portland we had a discussion about the IPP "print-quality" attribute and FSG's desire to add two new values, 'economy' and 'fine', where 'economy' is lower than 'draft' and 'fine' is higher than 'high'. The FSG further proposed the addition of a new attribute, called "print-optimize", that would augment "print-quality" with values of 'image', 'photo', 'text', 'text-and-image', 'save-toner' and 'speed'. With regard to 'economy' and 'fine', we agreed that 'economy' would map to "print-quality"='draft' and 'fine' to "print-quality"='high'.  There may be end user visible features that map to multiple attributes.  We leave it to specific print domains to model these higher level aggregate features.  When appropriate we will add needed elements to the Semantic Model. There was a lot of push back on "print-optimize".  The main concern was that "print-optimize" contained a mixed bag of items.  The two main categories were content metadata and rendering hints.  We finally agreed that the two values 'save-toner' and 'speed' are implied by the "print-quality".  Since they were not required, they were removed.  The remaining values are needed to direct the type of optimization/processing that will be performed on the content.  It does not necessarily mean the value describes the content.  To clarify this we changed the attribute name to "print-content-optimize". Finally the value 'image' seemed the same as 'photo'.  The name for this was changed to 'graphic'. As a result the following attribute will be added to the JobX specification in it next revision.   print-content-optimize (type2 keyword)      This attribute refines the value specified by the print-quality      attribute.      The standard keyword values are:         'graphic': optimize for graphic clarity         'photo': optimize for photo clarity         'text': optimize for text clarity         'text-and-graphic': optimize for both text and graphic clarity Peter Zehler XEROX Xerox Innovation Group Email: PZehler@crt.xerox.com Voice:    (585) 265-8755 FAX:      (585) 422-7961 US Mail: Peter Zehler        Xerox Corp.        800 Phillips Rd.        M/S 128-25E        Webster NY, 14580-9701 </tt>