PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal

PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal

STUART at KEI-CA.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM STUART at KEI-CA.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Fri May 9 11:43:13 EDT 1997


     
Haven't we beat this topic to death?


The PMP group just spent a significant amount of effort to come up with a Top 25
chart that lists the expected values for the hr variables, the AlertTable, and 
SubUnitStatus for all of the most common printer conditions.  I think we are now
spending too much time on the 20 side of the 80/20 rule.  


We will always be able to find some condition that is not adequately defined by 
the hr variables (or where the bindings are conflicting), but does that mean 
they are useless?  I don't think so.  The Alert Table supplies complete 
information for the "soup to nuts" management applications, while the hr 
variables can be useful for simple "traffic light" type monitoring applications.


We have been fretting over the hr variable bindings in the case of a low toner 
which is critical.  What about a toner out which is a warning?  (In a printer 
that has multiple toner hoppers for example), or a printer that is jammed but 
not down?  (has an alternate paper path)  Do these exceptions make the hr 
variables useless as they stand?  No!  We had our chance to drop the hr 
variables as a means for describing printer status, but we didn't do it - we 
came up with a Top 25 chart instead!  


Changing the hr MIB itself seems a whole different discussion (which Harry has 
brought up in regards to hrPrinterDetectedErrorState).


I suggest that we simply put a section in the FAQs that directs an implementer 
to follow the recommendations in the Top 25 chart for the common printer 
conditions.  For other conditions which are not covered by the chart, 


1) Describe the printer condition as accurately as possible in the 
prtAlertTable,
2) Describe the printer sub unit status as accurately as possible using 
PrtSubUnitStatusTC,
2) Describe the overall printer state as accurately as possible with 
hrDeviceStatus and hrPrinterStatus.
3) Describe the printer condition with hrPrinterDetectedErrorState.  In the case
where the condition conflicts with the bindings between 
hrPrinterDetectedErrorState and hrDeviceStatus, break the bindings and describe 
the condition correctly.  For example, in the case of a low toner condition 
which causes a printer to stop printing, the hr MIB INCORRECTLY MANDATES that a 
low toner condition must correlate with an hrDeviceStatus of (3)warning.  In 
this example case, the binding between hrPrinterDetectedErrorState and 
hrDeviceStatus should be disregarded; hrPrinterDetectedErrorState should be 
lowtoner(bit 2) and hrDeviceStatus should be (5)down.


Let's turn out the lights on this one!


Stuart Rowley
Kyocera Electronics 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal
Author:  INTERNET:jkm at underscore.com at CSERVE
Date:    5/8/97 3:12 PM




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Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:43:47 -0400 (EDT) 
From: JK Martin <jkm at underscore.com>
Message-Id: <199705081843.OAA06392 at uscore.underscore.com> 
To: Gail.Songer at eng.efi.com
Subject: Re: PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal 
Cc: pmp at pwg.org
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: pmp-owner at pwg.org
     
Ah, now I recall the situation.  Yes, you're right.
     
According to the rules defined in the HR MIB, there is a strong binding 
between the value set in hrPrinterDetectedErrorState and the value of 
hrDeviceStatus.
     
This is really unfortunate.  And yes, this is precisely the scenario 
which the PMP must decide whether to diverge from the Host Resources 
MIB.
     
Lloyd:  We need to get this discussion rolling asap, and try to reach
        consensus in San Diego.  Is this acceptable to you?
     
Here's a premise for all of us in the PMP to jump on in this list:
     
  These statements exclude from consideration any existing Printer MIB 
  implementations:
     
  There are few, if any, Host Resources MIB implementations that 
  actually use the hrPrinterStatus and hrPrinterDetectedErrorState 
  variables.  In fact, there are few, if any, HR MIB implementations 
  that implement "Printer" devices at all.
     
  As a result, the Printer MIB should redefine the rules surrounding
  the bindings between the HR MIB variables hrDeviceStatus, hrPrinterStatus 
  and hrPrinterDetectedErrorState in such a way as to allow for more 
  accurate presentation of printer status information.
     
Let's get a quick discussion rolling on the Pro's and Con's of these 
statements.  Feel free to add other statements, as necessary.
     
While this may seem like an extreme action on the part of the PWG, 
it should be viewed as *far* less extreme than severing ties with 
the HR MIB altogether.  (Something I hope we don't do.)
     
     ...jay
     
----- Begin Included Message -----
     
From: "Gail Songer" <Gail.Songer at eng.efi.com>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:25:55 -0700 
To: JK Martin <jkm at underscore.com>
Subject: Re: PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal 
Cc: pmp at pwg.org
     
Jay,
     
On May 8,  1:49pm, JK Martin wrote:
> Subject: Re: PMP> Top 25 minus 4 conditions/alerts proposal 
> Gail,
>
> I certainly suggested that if the HR MIB model for printers ends up 
> conflicting with what we believe is the *right* model for handling 
> certain conditions, then yes, we should consider "deprecating" our 
> association with the HR MIB status variables.
>
> However, if you agree that the values I proposed for the HR MIB variables 
> (below) are correct, then for the "critical toner low" condition, there
> is no conflict.  Again, assuming the values I proposed are correct.
     
I am a bit confused here.  The definition that you have proposed:
     
> >
> >      hrDeviceStatus                down(5) 
> >      hrPrinterStatus               other(1)
> >      hrPrinterDetectedErrorState   lowToner(1) 
> >
     
is in conflict the host resources mib.  "lowToner" forces hrDeviceStatus to 
"warning" not "down".  One way to avoid conflict is to add "offline" to 
hrPrinterDetectedErrorState since "offline" requires "down" in hrDeviceStatus.
 This, unfortunatly, brings us back to the alert table.  I suppose that having
a toner low critical, that would change to a warning when the printer 
continues
would work and still keep everything consistent.
     
>
> Someone had previously illustrated a scenario in which the Alert Table 
> entry would be in conflict with the previously published set of related 
> HR MIB values.  What was that scenario?
>
>      ...jay
>
     
     
----- End Included Message -----



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