WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

A. Lynne Wagner LynneWagner at comcast.net
Tue Apr 12 13:20:57 EDT 2005


Ira,

I am sorry that I am not communicating. I am not arguing to change the
meanings of terms; rather the opposite. As I stated previously, the Counter
does NOT explicitly define the MIB terms that Ron identified.  Table 4.2.1
etc deal with impressions and images, where the "descriptions" are not
subject to misunderstanding, not with media sheets, where the descriptions
in the MIB certainly are subject to mis-understanding. The only implicit
definitions of the various media sheets are in table 4.3 Media Used.
Granting the intent that "The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of
abstract counters whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter
Spec", perhaps this discussion should be about inconsistency in mapping. 

In any case, the MIB Descriptions for media sheets variations suggest
meanings that are different from the counter spec. Resolution may be to
ensure that the exact terms are defined in the Counter spec and to have the
Counter MIB Descriptions refer to the counter spec. Alternatively, the MIB
descriptions may be modified to agree with the implicit definitions in the
counter spec. 

Taking Ron as an example of an intelligent MIB reader, note that his
interpretation of full color printing does not clearly reflect the Counter
Spec concept that full-color is the printing of any non-black colorant (a
non-intuitive definition). I therefore suggest that there would be an
advantage including a useful description in the MIB.

Bill Wagner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-wims at pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims at pwg.org] On Behalf Of McDonald,
Ira
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:05 PM
To: 'Bergman, Ron'; wims at pwg.org
Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
Subject: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments

Hi Ron and Bill,

Three points:

(1) The Counter MIB defines _only_ a mapping of abstract counters
    whose semantics are normatively defined in the Counter Spec.

(2) The entire section 1.2 'Imaging Terminology' in the Counter MIB
    should be _deleted_ and replaced with a single sentence that
    states the names of terms imported normatively from the Counter
    Spec.

(3) All issues on definitions must be resolved in the Counter Spec.

The Counter Spec _does_ define 'black impressions', etc., in section
4.2.1 'Job Counters Table'.  Those definitions are exactly aligned
with the definitions in the Job MIB (RFC 2707) and IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911)
which are already part of the PWG Semantic Model/1.0 and are NOT 
subject to change in their meaning (though examples are permissible
in the Counter Spec).

We've already debated (at previous PWG face-to-face meetings) and
WIMS teleconferences whether definitions can be changed.  And agreed
that they MUST NOT be changed to conflict with the deployed Job MIB
and IPP job progress extensions.

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
phone: +1-906-494-2434
email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:56 AM
> To: McDonald, Ira; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> Ira,
> 
> Sorry for my confusion here, but can you tell me where
> 'black media sheet' is defined?  I could not find this
> in the Counter's spec.
> 
> If someone says to me 'black media sheet', I would believe
> (incorrectly I guess) they were talking about a black sheet
> of paper, not a sheet printed with black toner.  Note that
> I am not concerned with the object name, just the 
> description clause.
> 
> 	Ron
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald at sharplabs.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:09 AM
> To: Bergman, Ron; wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); McDonald, Ira
> Subject: RE: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> The first is a good catch - thanks.
> 
> The rest are rewordings that attempt to tersely redefine
> what a 'black media sheet' (for example) means.  The
> Counter MIB normatively imports these definitions from
> the Counter Spec.  The rewordings are possibly dangerous
> and add no value (in my opinion).  It is NOT the business
> of the Counter MIB to redefine these terms at variance
> with the Counter Spec.
> 
> My two cents,
> - Ira
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bergman, Ron [mailto:Ron.Bergman at rpsa.ricoh.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:25 PM
> To: wims at pwg.org
> Cc: Harry Lewis (E-mail); Ira McDonald (E-mail 3)
> Subject: Counter MIB Last Call Comments
> 
> 
> I have two comments on this document. 
> 1. Invalid examples in the description clause for: 
> icKeySubunitType  The text "(e.g., print, copy, etc.)" is incorrect 
> for this object.  Should be "(e.g., inputTray, outputBin, etc.)". 
> 2. Unclear wording in the description clauses for: 
> icSheetBlackSheets: 
>    Current: 
>         "Black media sheets printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
>         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> icSheetBlankSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Blank media sheets printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
>         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> icSheetFullColorSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Full color media sheets printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
>         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> icSheetHighlightColorSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Highlight color media sheets printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Media sheets printed by this managed service (e.g., 
>         'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
> icMediaUsedBlackSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Black sheets of this specific media printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> managed service 
>         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using only black colorant." 
> icMediaUsedBlankSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Blank sheets of this specific media printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> managed service 
>         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') without an image." 
> icMediaUsedFullColorSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Full color sheets of this specific media printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> managed service 
>         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using full color." 
> icMediaUsedHighlightColorSheets 
>    Current: 
>         "Highlight color sheets of this specific media 
> printed by this 
>         managed service (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') 
>         or managed subunit (e.g., 'icSubunitType' of 'marker')." 
>    Suggested: 
>         "Sheets of this specific media printed by this 
> managed service 
>         (e.g., 'icServiceType' of 'print') or managed subunit (e.g., 
>         'icSubunitType' of 'marker') using a highlight color." 
>         Ron Bergman 
>         Ricoh Printing Systems America 
> 




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