attachment-0001

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Rick,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Well, if we ignore PrintJob, I guess I suppose this is not so tricky, but of</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>course why bother to fix Charset and Natural Language handling in</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Printer class and ignore the issues in PrintJob class?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>By the way, those semantics I described are a LOT more central than</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>mere IPP protocol semantics.  The entire set of Printer and Job object</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>attributes _and_ operations in IPP/1.1 _are_ the substance of the XML</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Schema and high-level PWG Semantic Model/1.0 (PWG 5105.1).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>So the subtle relationships between Charset and Natural Language for</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Printer, PrintService, PrintJob, </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>and various operation attributes </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>are still </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>our problem (in WIMS CIM Refresh).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=627263500-10082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com [mailto:Richard_Landau@Dell.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> imcdonald@sharplabs.com; wamwagner@comcast.net; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Winston_Bumpus@Dell.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=262280521-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Ira, </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=262280521-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=262280521-09082005> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000><SPAN class=262280521-09082005>Again, thanks for the clarifications, particularly in an area that I'm not familiar with (IPP).  </SPAN>Not to quibble *too* much, but it seems to me that only the semantics of 'attributes-charset' and 'attributes-natural-language' are more subtle than described below. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The fact that the value of 'natural-language-configured' is used in some other calculation is not a description of *its* behavior. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That calculation is part of the description of the behavior of 'attributes-natural-language'. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#008000> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>And, anyway, if we limit near-term discussions to Printer, these considerations don't arise. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>Good luck with the music festival.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#008000> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>rick</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#008000> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#008000> </FONT></o:p></P></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 09, 2005 15:53<BR><B>To:</B> Landau, Richard; McDonald, Ira; wamwagner@comcast.net; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Bumpus, Winston<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi Rick,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>More layers to the onion...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>IPP operation requests all MUST include the special _operation_ attributes of </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>'attributes-charset' and 'attributes-natural-language' </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>which determine the Printer's </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>choices in operation responses.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>If the Printer does NOT support the specified 'attributes-charset' value, then the </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Printer </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>MUST reject the request.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>If the Printer does NOT support the specified </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>''attributes-natural-language' value, </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>then the Printer MUST ACCEPT the request and store </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>the user's attributes with </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>the well-formed (but unknown) language tag and MUST </FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=990393920-09082005>respond using the </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=990393920-09082005>'natural-language-configured' value for any reply text </SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>(i.e., the Printer need not be </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>omniscient)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>So the semantics of 'Xxx-Configured' are more subtle than you describe below.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=990393920-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <P>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com [mailto:Richard_Landau@Dell.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:29 PM<BR><B>To:</B> imcdonald@sharplabs.com; wamwagner@comcast.net; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Winston_Bumpus@Dell.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000><SPAN class=252222319-09082005>Okay, here's another possibly way-off-center point.  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=#008000></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=#008000><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=252222319-09082005>First, a</SPAN>pparently I seriously misunderstood the (implied) semantics of the CurrentCharSet and CurrentNaturalLanguage properties. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I apologize.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>I assumed (always a bad strategy) that they were global items that could in fact set the default behavior of the management agent. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That is, behavior similar to prtGeneralLocalization, though that does not permit character set and language to vary independently.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=#008000><FONT face=Arial>However, I am now really puzzled about a useful interpretation of the meaning of "Current" in these cases. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Two questions.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Easy one first. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>1.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The printer MOF does not specify any read-write access for properties. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The CIM default for this attribute is False.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Should we attempt to correct this?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Do we think that these properties might permit read-write access? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do we think that any properties in CIM_Printer should permit read-write access?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Such a declaration would be for modeling only; implementations would still get to permit or forbid write access, authorize it, etc. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>2.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Do we think that such properties are global to the management agent or local to a management session? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If two users simultaneously request management information in two different languages (using some protocol mechanism outside these properties), do they see different values of CurrentNaturalLanguage? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And how current is "Current?"<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Does the value returned describe the language in which this particular response message is written, or does it refer to a global setting in the printer?</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>I agree with Ira that the printer current values don't change. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I would not expect any such request to alter the value of CurrentNaturalLanguage. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A deliberate SET operation might alter the value, but only if the property is writable; see question 1. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Is there a useful interpretation that we can agree on (and then record in text in the new MOF), for the semantics of these properties? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Suggestions: </FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>- A CurrentXxxx property describes the behavior of the management agent for all management request-response exchanges or sessions, unless the request that initiates the session specifies different behavior. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>- A request that specifies different behavior does not change the value of the CurrentXxxx property. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>- The mechanism used by a request to specify different behavior is beyond the scope of this MOF. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>- A CurrentXxxx property may or may not be settable by the end user, as part of management policy. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The MOF declares that the property as modeled may be writable.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Implementations may vary in their ability to write the property, or to authorize writing by consumers, and so forth. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>Would such semantics be useful to write down?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The current MOF doesn't specify the behavior of these properties very clearly. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>If this whole topic is not completely off-base, we could just add it to the list of non-cosmetic questions. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000>Sorry for the length.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>rick</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></o:p> </P></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=252222319-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=252222319-09082005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 08, 2005 22:26<BR><B>To:</B> McDonald, Ira; 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; Landau, Richard; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Bumpus, Winston<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>By the way, the corresponding IPP Printer attributes are called</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>'charset-configured' and 'natural-language-configured'.  Given that</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>IPP and the Printer MIB frequently refer to the 'current configuration',</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>DMTF CIM property names of 'Current...' are fine if we deprecate</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>all the other non-deterministic 'CurrentXxx' properties.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=598072203-09082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>McDonald, Ira<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 08, 2005 6:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; Richard_Landau@Dell.com; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Winston_Bumpus@Dell.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I agree with the proposal.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>However, I strongly DISAGREE with the creation of new DefaultXxx</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>properties to be used in place of CurrentCharSet/NaturalLanguage.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>We had this discussion during the development of IPP and concluded</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>that DefaultXxx has the wrong semantics, because they CANNOT be</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>overridden by the user.  They are the character set and language</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>for the values in the Printer Description class of attributes (broadly, </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>everything except </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Status attributes).  A specific user can request</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>a Notification (for example) in a different charset/language, but the</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Printer current values don't change.  This is NOT the semantics</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>of DefaultXxx on a Printer object.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Note that the user MUST specify the charset/language of submitted</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>string attributes with an IPP Job  - it's a protocol error to omit them.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=180563622-08082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>wamwagner@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 08, 2005 3:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Winston_Bumpus@Dell.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: WIMS> CIM> Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Rick,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Makes sense. Perhaps we got carried away in our generalizations and missed the distinction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would see no benefit in changing the names of u<FONT face=Arial>rrentCharSet or Cu</FONT><FONT face=Arial>rrentNaturalLanguage   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill Wagner</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR> <META content="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7232.60" name=Generator> <P><FONT face=Arial>Re: Deprecating (almost) all CurrentXxxx properties in CIM_Printer</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial>Slight revision to the proposal:  Deprecate all the CurrentXxxx properties in favor of the corresponding DefaultXxxx properties, except CurrentCharSet and CurrentNaturalLanguage.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial>These last two properties, CharSet and NaturalLanguage, record the character set and natural language being used for management, not for printing.  They are properties of the printer controller, not properties of print jobs.  Since they are asynchronous with printing functions, they do not suffer from the ambiguities of the other CurrentXxxx properties in complex printers.  Also, neither of these properties has a corresponding DefaultXxxx property.  Therefore these two properties must be retained.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial>Summary:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial>CurrentPaperType                deprecate; use DefaultPaperType instead</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>CurrentLanguage         deprecate; use DefaultLanguage</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>CurrentMimeType         deprecate; use DefaultMimeType</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>CurrentCapabilities             deprecate; use DefaultCapabilities</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial>CurrentCharSet                  retain</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>CurrentNaturalLanguage          retain</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial>I recall that some exceptions were mentioned, but I think we all mistakenly referred to CurrentLanguage instead of CurrentCharSet during the discussion.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial>Addendum to proposal: we could change the *names* of the two remaining CurrentXxxx properties to DefaultCharSet and DefaultNaturalLanguage and then be rid of all the CurrentXxxx properties.  (Actual process: add new properties with identical syntax and semantics but new names, and then deprecate the old properties.)  Only half kidding.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial>Comments, please.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial>rick</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial>-------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>Richard_Landau@dell.com,</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>System Mgt Arch & Stds</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>+1-512-728-9023,</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>One Dell Way,</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>RR5-3 Box 8352, Round Rock, TX 78682</FONT> </P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>