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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Hi Bill,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' is overloaded with two probably</DIV> <DIV>incompatible uses, but it isn't the MIB that did this overloading.  This</DIV> <DIV>is a bug in the PWG Candidate Standard Imaging System Counters</DIV> <DIV>(PWG 5106.1) - see section 5.3 on the bottom of page 27.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This bug cannot be fixed in the MIB independently, without revision </DIV> <DIV>of the source document's element semantics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers,</DIV> <DIV>- Ira</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:36 PM To: McDonald, Ira; 'Stuart Rowley' Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: Re: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions </DIV> <DIV>OK. Ira, it seems that you agree with Stuart that: </DIV> <DIV> icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString and icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString</DIV> <DIV>both are not localized. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The former is a PWG 5101.1 defined keyword; the latter is freeform in that it is not a public-spec defined keyword, but operationally should be one of a set of strings defined for use in a particular environment or with  a particular application.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This appears to overload icMediaUsedMediaInfo as both a qualifying descriptor for media identification and as a description for human consumption.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since the MIB is informational only (pending prototyping), and Stuart may be doing the prototyping, I would suggest that we collect the issues discovered during this effort and define an updated version of the MIB for resubmission as a candidate standard. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill Wagner</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> </DIV> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </STYLE> <o:SmartTagType name="PostalCode" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="Street" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="address" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV>Hi Stuart,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ASCII keyword in '...SizeName' should NOT be localized, </DIV> <DIV>but the equivalent elements in '...MediaInfo' ARE supposed to </DIV> <DIV>be localized.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, because '...MediaInfo' in the Abstact Counter spec (PWG </DIV> <DIV>5106.1) and Counter MIB is required for the key distinguishing </DIV> <DIV>two instances of the same size media (e.g., by color), it's highly</DIV> <DIV>undesirable to change the value of '...MediaInfo' when the printer</DIV> <DIV>locale changes -  lousy side effects for accounting applications.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill - I consider this a probable errata against the Counter MIB.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers,</DIV> <DIV>- Ira</DIV> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Stuart Rowley [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:07 PM To: McDonald, Ira Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks for the quick reply. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The description for icMediaUsedMediaSizeName says:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> "The media size self-describing name for this specific media,<o:p></o:p> for use with remote network management scripts and GUIs,<o:p></o:p> specified as a Unicode string encoded in UTF-8 (RFC 3629)<o:p></o:p> in the language specified in 'icGeneralNaturalLanguage'.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> ...so would this ASCII keyword be localized...?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Stuart<o:p></o:p> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:47 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName>; McDonald, Ira Cc: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">wims@pwg.org</st1:PersonName>' Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Hi Stuart,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I copied the WIMS list, so others could see my remarks and chime in.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> The significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName being DisplayString is<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> that it MUST be strict ASCII (it's a _keyword_ that follows the format in<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> PWG 5101.1, not a free form name - even a custom size name has a<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> format and MUST be strict ASCII).<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> icMediaUsedMediaInfo is a description that makes '...SizeName' unique for <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> instances of different (but same size) media.  Because the IETF leaned<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> on us hard to make all future MIB descriptive strings be internationalized,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> it's of type SnmpAdminString (UTF-8) and localized.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Now - nothing prevents you from making the "localized" media info in<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Kyocera products be of the form:<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>   media-info = english-media-identifier ":" localized-description<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> So that your accounting applications use the invariant identifier and<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> save the localized-description (if at all) in a separate database field<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> that's informational.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Or you could cheat (I don't recommend this) and leave the value of<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> icGeneralNaturalLanguage empty and just support all descriptive<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> fields in US-English only (the default) - I _really_ don't recommend<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> this approach, because it's not very customer-friendly.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> - Ira<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>  Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>  <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <o:p></o:p> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 2.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> -----Original Message----- From: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName> [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:47 PM To: McDonald, Ira Subject: Counters MIB questions<o:p></o:p> Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I hope you had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I have a couple questions about the Counters spec and MIB regarding media used.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> There are 3 objects used to describe the media size and type.<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString,<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString,<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaName SnmpAdminString<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> What is the significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName using DisplayString and the others using SnmpAdminString?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In the MIB it lists all three as being localized, but it seems only icMediaUsedMediaName should be localized. I need icMediaUsedMediaSizeName and icMediaUsedMediaInfo to be used by our accounting apps to identify the size and type for billing purposes. This would be hard to achieve using localized strings. Our apps would need to read standardized names from these two objects. Am I missing something?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Stuart<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p> Network Product Mgr.<o:p></o:p> Kyocera Technology Development<o:p></o:p></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 </BLOCKQUOTE> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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