Semantic Model Mail Archive: RE: SM> Job "Actual"

Semantic Model Mail Archive: RE: SM> Job "Actual"

RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

From: Zehler, Peter (PZehler@crt.xerox.com)
Date: Thu Oct 03 2002 - 10:49:46 EDT

  • Next message: Harry Lewis: "RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes"

    Harry,
     
    The long slow pipeline is the IETF. A PWG document that details the concept
    would be fine. (The Semantic Model document needs to point to the documents
    with the bloody details for the semantic elements) I do not want to delay
    or sidetrack the Semantic Model schedule. Things like the document object
    and your proposal need to be worked in a timely manner. A slot should be
    allocated to address these issue and drive them independently to closure. I
    am looking to have the first Semantic Model and update process finalized
    soon after the January PWG meeting. It seemed to me that the Document
    Object and Job Receipt fit well in the PWG IPP WG. (Let's not worry about
    the IETF IPP WG) Which begs the question "What is the status of the PWG IPP
    WG"?
     
    Pete
     

            Peter Zehler
    XEROX
    Xerox Architecture Center
    Email: PZehler@crt.xerox.com
    Voice: (585) 265-8755
    FAX: (585) 265-8871
    US Mail: Peter Zehler

                    Xerox Corp.
            800 Phillips Rd.
            M/S 128-30E
            Webster NY, 14580-9701

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Harry Lewis [mailto:harryl@us.ibm.com]
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:15 AM
    To: Zehler, Peter
    Cc: McDonald, Ira; sm@pwg.org
    Subject: RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

    Yes, there is the need for some housekeeping attributes and attribute
    values. For example, one problem might be what happens when a printer does
    not support "copies" (because they have not implemented PDL override) yet
    you still want to access the "copies-actual" attribute.

    I think it is appropriate to discuss this in SM because it was a shortcoming
    of IPP. SM is attempting to improve on the IPP basis. I don't feel we are in
    the mode of extending IPP beyond what is already in the (long, slow, sticky)
    pipeline.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Harry Lewis
    IBM Printing Systems
    ----------------------------------------------

            "Zehler, Peter" <PZehler@crt.xerox.com>

    10/03/2002 05:43 AM

            
            To: Harry Lewis/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, "McDonald, Ira"
    <imcdonald@sharplabs.com>
            cc: sm@pwg.org
            Subject: RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

           

    Harry,
      
    I like the concept. I prefer "actual" to "chosen". Have you considered new
    operations (e.g. "GetActualJobAttributes" "GetJobsHistory") to accomplish
    the same thing. It would make Printers that implement a job receipt more
    explicit. There would be no need for all the new attributes (i.e.
    "ZZZ-actual"). On the other hand using attributes instead of new operations
    does have the benefit of being able to retrieve both the requested and
    actual attributes together and having a static representation that
    differentiates the two. Perhaps using both the "actual" attributes and new
    operations might be more explicit.
      
    Of course there will probably need to be some housekeeping attributes added
    to the printer for history management/configuration. I would prefer that
    something like this be documented separately and referenced in the PWG
    Semantic Model. The document would probably be an extension to IPP.
      
    Pete
      

    Peter Zehler
    XEROX
    Xerox Architecture Center
    Email: PZehler@crt.xerox.com
    Voice: (585) 265-8755
    FAX: (585) 265-8871
    US Mail: Peter Zehler

            Xerox Corp.
           800 Phillips Rd.
           M/S 128-30E
           Webster NY, 14580-9701

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Harry Lewis [mailto:harryl@us.ibm.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:57 PM
    To: McDonald, Ira
    Cc: sm@pwg.org
    Subject: RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

    I'm fine with "chosen" vs. "actual"... not as concerned about the name as
    the concept. In this case, actual might differ from requested due to
    something like a PDL override (so "chosen" seems to fit) or it COULD differ
    due to some circumstance (like the job was aborted prior to all copies
    completing) in which case "actual" seems more apropos.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Harry Lewis
    IBM Printing Systems
    ----------------------------------------------

            "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com>

    10/02/2002 07:30 PM

            
           To: Harry Lewis/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, sm@pwg.org
           cc:
           Subject: RE: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

          

    Hi Harry,

    For what it's worth...

    Printer MIB used (from DPA I think...) the terminology of
    'Declared' or 'Requested' (for the input) and 'Chosen'
    (for what you're calling 'Actual' below).

    Cheers,
    - Ira McDonald

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Harry Lewis [mailto:harryl@us.ibm.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 5:56 PM
    To: sm@pwg.org
    Subject: SM> Job "Actual" attributes

    In IPP, PWG Semantic Model and PSI we have Job Template attributes with
    "sister" (supported, default and ready) Printer Description attributes. When
    discussing the purpose of a "Job Ticket" in the semantic model, we often
    refer to Job Template attributes as the "job ticket" as these carry
    production intent. By definition, when queried, Job Template attributes must
    return the value associated with each attribute during submission. Thus,
    there is no way to query a job (or document) and learn WHAT ACTUALLY
    HAPPENED w.r.t. any particular attributed (ex. copies). This is covered by
    the JDF job ticket but we have said JDF is too workflow oriented for
    (initial) inclusion into the PWG Semantic Model.

    I would like to propose a solution - the addition of a group of Job
    Description attributes referred to as "-actual". These could be extensions
    to the group of Job Progress attributes or a separate grouping of Job Actual
    (or "Job Completion") attributes. I know, in IPP proper, we don't have the
    notion of job "history" (the job "disappears" as soon as it has completed)
    so "actuals" would not be very useful. But in the semantic model and PSI
    we're trying to overcome this. To the extent that we are reluctant to
    embrace a full fledged job ticket, the addition of "-actual" attributes
    should go a long way toward providing much of the essential JT functionality
    that was previously missing for non-produciton environments.

    For example:

    +===================+======================+
    | Job Template |Job Description:Actual|
    | Attribute | Value Attribute |
    +===================+======================+
    | copies | copies-actual |
    | (integer (1:MAX)) | (integer (1:MAX)) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | finishings | finishings-actual |
    |(1setOf type2 enum)|(1setOf type2 enum) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | sides | sides-actual |
    | (type2 keyword) | (type2 keyword) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | number-up | number-up-actual |
    | (integer (1:MAX)) | (integer (1:MAX)) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | orientation- |orientation-requested-|
    | requested | actual |
    | (type2 enum) | (type2 enum) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | media | media-actual |
    | (type3 keyword | | (type3 keyword | |
    | name) | name) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | printer-resolution| printer-resolution- |
    | (resolution) | actual |
    | | (resolution) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+
    | print-quality | print-quality-actual |
    | (type2 enum) | (type2 enum) |
    +-------------------+----------------------+

    ----------------------------------------------
    Harry Lewis
    IBM Printing Systems
    ----------------------------------------------



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