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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div><br></div><div>It’s certainly not art, but it’s not a marketing term either – Roy’s definition basically still holds, but it’s evolved a bit – I do agree that if you asked 5 people what it means, you might get a spectrum of answers, but the spectrum would be relatively narrow, so I don’t expect any mailing argument to drive fragmentation into the REST world – the developers know what it means – and it certainly has won in the marketplace over SOAP.</div><div><br></div><div>R.</div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 3:37 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Randy Turner <<a href="mailto:rturner@amalfisystems.com">rturner@amalfisystems.com</a>>, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a>>, "Semantic Model 3.0 Workgroup discussion list" <<a href="mailto:sm3@pwg.org">sm3@pwg.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [Cloud] [SM3] Cloud FaxIn Service<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Randy,<br><br></div>I suggest that you go read those threads on the IETF Apps Area WG list.<br><br></div>Even the "REST" supporters there have regularly admitted that there is no<br></div>agreed concise definition and they're trying to say "just read Roy Fielding's<br></div>14-year-old dissertation". REST is a marketing term, not a term of art.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Randy Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rturner@amalfisystems.com" target="_blank">rturner@amalfisystems.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div>There may be arguments about the definition of REST, but the RESTful semantics are not going away<div><br></div><div>The IETF is building their “internet of things” technology on RESTful semantics - they have yet to sell that outside the IETF, so we’ll see what wins. Further, Facebook, Google, and Twitter APIs are all RESTful.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>R.</div><div><br></div></font></span><div><div><div><div class="h5"><div>On Sep 17, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I agree with all Mike's summary points below.<br><br></div>The selection of an available FaxInJobTicket is based on the Metrics<br></div>structure (which Pete worked out). I don't see any service configuration <br>issues (for a NON-Cloud binding).<br></div><br></div>With respect to bindings, there is no other game in town in the PWG<br></div>except IPP bindings. No printer vendor has ever publicly announced<br>the shipping of an Web Service binding that conforms to the PWG SM<br></div>schema.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div>PS - A note of caution about PWG developing so-called "RESTful"<br></div><div>bindings to anything. There's a religious war going on currently on<br>the IETF Apps Area WG mailing list about a simple request for a<br></div><div>concise definition of "REST" - one camp admits that there is *no*<br>simple definition and wants their idol left alone - the other camp is<br></div><div>getting tired of hearing about "REST" that nobody can define - it's<br></div><div>only a matter of time before this escalates to the IESG itself.<br></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Michael Sweet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Bill,<div><br></div><div>The Cloud Service Management Operations are directed to the Cloud service and only manage the Cloud service. We don't relay them through the Proxy to the Local service and have no way to do so in the current model - all out of scope for a long time. Similarly, there is no way to remotely manage the Proxy - out of scope.</div><div><br></div><div>All client-initiated job-based services that span between the Cloud and Local services are in scope for the Cloud Imaging Requirements and Model:</div><div><br></div><div>- FaxIn does not span and jobs are not client-initiated. It should be out of scope.</div><div><br></div><div>- FaxOut MAY span and has client-initiated jobs. Cloud-based FaxOut through a Local service should be in scope. Purely Cloud FaxOut (with the fax modem in the cloud too) is the same as SM FaxOut and should be out of scope. Similarly, FaxOut from the Local Device should be out of scope since either a) the Cloud isn't involved or b) it *is* involved in some way, but not using the interface in this document.</div><div><br></div><div>- Print spans and has client-initiated jobs. It should be in scope.</div><div><br></div><div>- Resource does not span and has no jobs. It should be out of scope.</div><div><br></div><div>- Scan spans and has client-initiated jobs. If should be in scope.</div><div><br></div><div>- Transform does not span. It should be out of scope.</div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 17, 2014, at 1:23 PM, William A Wagner <<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><br></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div><span class="">
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