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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Ok, I'll wander in from the peanut gallery and probably
expose my ignorance. I've only been following these festivities loosely,
but the posts about total pages and then then the desire for a compressed size
did catch my attention. Looking over <A
title=ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippraster10-20110327-rev.pdf
style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)"
href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippraster10-20110327-rev.pdf"
target=_blank><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippraster10-20110327-rev.pdf</FONT></A> , from
a server perspective, it bothers me greatly that it is not possible to find
and extract pages from this format without uncompressing the images out to the
desired page(s). Yes, the server will probably have the resources (disk
and processor) to accomplish this, but given these are by definition large
files, it seems like a bloody waste. If this is to become a widely
used format, then ideally, it should be possible for a server to ingest and send
these pages on their way with minimal overhead, unless the server really has to
do some sort of reformatting.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I see two possibilities to make it easier on
servers:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>1. chunk the data</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>2. take a page from the PDF format and write the size of
the preceding image data into a field in the FOLLOWING
page header. This would require some sort of trailer record on the
file. With this, a server could run backwards through the file,
stepping from header to header and with low overhead find any desired page in
the file. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>My humble $.02</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Rich</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=202482817-25042011><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><FONT size=2>Richard B. Gray<BR>Senior Software
Engineer<BR>Plus Technologies LLC<BR>444 Alexandersville Road<BR>Miamisburg, OH
45342-3568<BR>+1 937-847-0614 ext. 2405<BR>+1 937-384-0842 fax<BR>877-899-7587
toll
free<BR>rgray@plustechnologies.com<BR>www.plustechnologies.com<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> ipp-bounces@pwg.org
[mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Petrie, Glen<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, April 22, 2011 1:33 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Michael Sweet<BR><B>Cc:</B>
ipp@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [IPP] Requested Additions to PWG
Raster<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">As stated below, I do
understand objection to adding the field. I would to hear from other PWG
members on the addition of these fields.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">Glen<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
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<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Michael
Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Petrie, Glen<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> ipp@pwg.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [IPP] Requested Additions to
PWG Raster</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Petrie, Glen
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" type="cite"><SPAN
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">...<SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] The important
case is the size of the compressed raster data. The decompressed size is
recorded only if the raster is
uncompressed.<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] I agree that
some (a few or a lot) of implementation may not provide the information but as
I said, I am requesting that the assignment be made and those who can (want
to) may record the size
information.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It really isn't a matter of "may not provide", in most
cases clients (and printers) simply can't buffer hundreds of megabytes of raster
data. I can add the field, but since most producers of PWG Raster will not be
able to supply the compressed size of the raster no printer will be able to
depend on it anyways, so IMHO it is best to have the printer, if it is going to
do any local processing of full page images, use its own optimal internal
storage format than try to gerry-rig something into the format that just won't
work.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] As I stated in
my original request, I am not worried about the printer, it will accept the
streaming input just fine. I want the size information for navigation of a
many page raster without having to decompress pages in a serial manor.
I am not jerry-rigging anything. I do not understand your
comment “that just won’t work”. It works fine. In fact, I wrote a
routine that will find the size-only of compressed page by running the
compression routine without storing the compressed data. I don’t
understand your objection to assigning the
field.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
color=blue size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">...</SPAN></FONT></SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></U1:P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I would actually prefer to flag the file as version 3
which is an uncompressed CUPS Raster with the version 2 page header. And in
the case of local processing, you'll likely want to use native word order
(another feature of CUPS Raster that we are not bringing along for PWG
Raster...)<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] Do you mean
big/little-endian? I am nothing requesting the word ordering flag
(value) be used. The current specification is
ok.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">My main point was that if you are concerned about having
a standard representation for intermediate data, CUPS Raster already provides
that. If you are trying to tweak PWG Raster for use as an internal
representation format then I'd rather not put that in the standard since
internal formats are OOS for any PWG
standard.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><SPAN
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Would it be sufficient to document an uncompressed
version of PWG Raster (with the "RAS3" file header) and then mark the native
word order support as out-of-scope for the spec but something that might be used
internally?<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria"><U1:P> </U1:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] I believe the
RAS3 is for the entire PWG Raster file. I am requesting a flags (value)
for individual pages.
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Since the format does not support this, I would be
opposed to adding something that would be used only for an internal
representation of a PWG Raster file.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Cambria color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Cambria">[gwp] Again, I do not
understand your objection. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">________________________________________________________________________<BR>Michael
Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG
Chair<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BR>--
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