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<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Smith and Mike,</div><div><br></div><div>We thought about this use case (templates for content items of</div><div>job sheets) years ago in Open Printing WG and concluded that</div><div>exact layout (left top of page) was overkill and a simple ordered</div><div>list of content item keywords to be centered, in order, leaving <br></div><div>layout entirely to the Printer (font, point size, etc.) was a useful</div><div>approach.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It's certainly an interesting topic, due to its wide implementation</div><div>in enterprise, academic, and other managed networks.</div><div><br></div><div>All - Is there interest in pursuing this in IPP WG?</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & Standards Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 11, 2018, at 1:06 PM, Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Ira,<div><br></div><div>I think Smith's question has more to do with whether a Client can create new banners (job sheets) via the System service, and then associate them with a Printer.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That's it - thanks Mike! Sorry to all for my struggles with being articulate. </div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div>Conceptually we could add a "resource-type" value for job-sheets ('static-job-sheet' or 'template-job-sheet'?) - the main issue I'd have is how the Printer would know where to place job information on the sheet...</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That did occur to me - creating that sounds like it opens up a bunch of work. (The old CUPS PostScript test page comes to mind...) But even with something static, a resource type would be needed.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 11, 2018, at 2:03 PM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Smith,</div><div><br></div><div>No need for System Service updates.</div><div><br></div><div>As Mike observed earlier in this thread, job-sheets-col (PWG 5100.3 Production Printing) already <br></div><div>covers this feature.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/hF7DCOYkrkiJ9zLKtEulGy?domain=sites.google.com" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/DHOICPNlvlcOr81xi0Sc7u?domain=sites.google.com" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:15 PM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & Standards Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Ah, good point!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Should there be an addition to System Service to support banner page management? Or are we going to consider banner pages a resource managed out-of-band of IPP? System Service doesn't seem to have that currently.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Smith<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 11, 2018, at 9:14 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987gmail-m_-6544739121333387727Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Smith,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Except that Client-side banner pages can't include info known only to the Printer</div>
<div>(which typically is included in banner pages) such as actual time of printing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>- Ira</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br>
<a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/hF7DCOYkrkiJ9zLKtEulGy?domain=sites.google.com" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/DHOICPNlvlcOr81xi0Sc7u?domain=sites.google.com" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:05 AM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & Standards Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>If the Printer supported IPP "overrides", it might also be possible for a driver upstream of the IPP client to support this as a "driver feature" by adding a page to the start and/or end of the Job's Document
and using "overrides" to specify the media source / type for the added banner pages.<br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 10, 2018, at 3:33 PM, Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987gmail-m_-6544739121333387727gmail-m_2190295088731708787Apple-interchange-newline">
<div><span style="font-family:LucidaGrande;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">There
isn't anything specifically you can do in CUPS for the banners - it will use the same paper/tray settings for the banners as for the rest of the job.</span>
<div style="font-family:LucidaGrande;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
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<div style="font-family:LucidaGrande;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
There is a job-sheets-col attribute (defined in PWG 5100.3: Production Printing Attributes - Set 1) that provides more control. At present this attribute is not supported by CUPS.</div>
<div style="font-family:LucidaGrande;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 10, 2018, at 5:17 PM, pipitas <<a href="mailto:pipitas@gmail.com" target="_blank">pipitas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>What is the canonical IPP-ish way to request printing of a job-sheet on different media (or media drawn from a different paper tray)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I remember many years ago to have hacked some PostScript files for a big institutional customer who required red separator sheets because thousands of their students shared a few dozen "public" printers: I then equipped the PostScript/banner files
with some 'setpagedevice' statements, saved them to /usr/share/cups/banners/ and, presto, whenever such a sheet was requested it printed from the paper tray specified by setpagedevice.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Is there an IPP-defined job attribute that lets me order job-sheets to be printed on a specific medium?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now that modern CUPS doesn't by default use banners/job-sheets any more which are PostScript files, what is another valid way to do achieve this with PDF files (or even with application/vnd.cups-banner files)?</div>
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<span class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:"Andale Mono";font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span class="gmail-m_-8677460855577161987Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:"Andale Mono";font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">_________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer</div></span></div></span>
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