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<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Smith,</div><div><br></div><div>I agree that it could have been explicit about the MUST NOT.</div><div><br></div><div>But revising the Port Monitor MIB is way low on my priorities list.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira<br></div><div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>(permanent) PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434</font></i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 3:40 PM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Hi Ira,<div><br></div><div>My reading of that OID definition is that including other capability keys is in a gray area - they are not explicitly disallowed but they are not explicitly allowed either. It would need to have a new clause that says something like "(i) all Printers MUST NOT include capabilities other than those listed in (g) and (h)". </div><div><br></div><div><div>
Smith<br><br><br>
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Smith,</div><div><br></div><div>The PWG Port Monitor MIB (PWG 5701.1-2004), co-written by Mike Fenelon (Microsoft)</div><div>and developed at the the request of Microsoft, defines:</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:monospace">ppmPrinterIEEE1284DeviceId OBJECT-TYPE<br> SYNTAX OCTET STRING (SIZE (0..1023))<br> MAX-ACCESS read-only<br> STATUS current<br> DESCRIPTION<br> "The IEEE 1284 device ID for this printer, a set of capabilities<br> (keys and values) specified in the US-ASCII charset and the<br> format 'key1: value {, value }; ... keyN: value {,value };',<br> as follows:<br><br> (a) SPACE (0x20), TAB (0x09), VTAB (0x0B), CR (0x0D), NL (0x0A),<br> and FF (0x0C) are allowed, but are ignored when parsing<br> (b) other control characters (less than 0x20) MUST NOT be used<br> (c) COLON (0x3A), COMMA (0x2C), and SEMICOLON (0x3B) are used as<br> delimiters and MUST NOT be included in any key or value<br> (d) each key MUST be separated from value(s) using COLON (0x3A)<br> (e) multiple values MUST BE separated using COMMA (0x2C)<br> (f) each capability MUST BE terminated using SEMICOLON (0x3B)<br> (g) all printers MUST include the following capabilities<br> - MANUFACTURER (or abbreviation MFG)<br> - MODEL (or abbreviation MDL)<br> (h) all printers MAY include the following capabilities<br> - COMMAND SET (or abbreviation CMD)<br> - COMMENT<br> - ACTIVE COMMAND SET<br><br> For example (actually all on one line of text):<br><br> MANUFACTURER:ACME Manufacturing;<br> COMMAND SET:PCL,PJL,PS,XHTML-Print+xml;<br> MODEL:LaserBeam 9;<br> COMMENT:Anything you like;<br> ACTIVE COMMAND SET:PCL;<br><br> The value of this object MUST exactly match the IEEE 1284-2000<br> Device ID string, except that the length field MUST NOT be<br> specified. The value MUST be assigned by the Printer vendor<br> and MUST NOT be localized by the Print Service.<br><br> Compatibility Note: At the time of publication of this MIB,<br> IEEE device IDs are restricted to US-ASCII. In order to support<br> possible future evolution of IEEE device IDs (in a successor to<br> IEEE 1284-2000) to allow non-ASCII characters, this object has<br> been defined with a syntax of OCTET STRING to support the future<br> use of UTF-8 (RFC 3629).<br><br> If this object is empty, then the value of 'ppmPortProtocolType'<br> for the selected port SHOULD be used to load a generic driver."<br> REFERENCE<br> "Section 7.6 of IEEE 1284-2000.<br> printer-make-and-model in IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911)."<br> DEFVAL { ''H } -- no IEEE 1284 device ID<br> ::= { ppmPrinterEntry 3 }</span></div><div><br></div><div>Note the required keywords and allowed keywords. Serial number was intentionally not</div><div>included.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>(permanent) PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434</font></i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 2:06 PM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi there,<br><div>
<div><br></div><div>Going to return to the "main thread" ("printer-serial-number") in a second reply. But on the subject of "printer-device-id"...</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 1, 2020, at 10:13 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Mike,</div><div><br></div><div>Right. 5107.2, in order to preserve space for the important info (interpreters</div><div>and MIME types), does NOT allow other keywords in a conformant string</div><div>(except for vendor proprietary ones on the right hand end of the string).</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We all seem to agree that the scope of 5107.2 is limited to the values specified for the "COMMAND SET" or "CMD" Device ID capability key, It makes no assertions about any of the other capability keys, whether standard ("MFG" / "MANUFACTURER", "MDL" / "MODEL") or otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>The "SN" is a separate capability key e.g. "MFG:PWG;MDL:Fake Printer;CMD:image/pwg-raster;SN:12345678;"</div><div><br></div><div>I think the PWG's perspective ought to be that vendors SHOULD NOT put PII in this or any IPP attributes that don't require authentication. Our "IPP Privacy Attributes v1.0 (PRIVACY)" doesn't seem to look at PII in the Printer itself, more of a focus on Job and Document PII?</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Of course, we're deprecating IEEE 1284 Device ID entirely in IPP, so this is</div><div>not the right place to hide serial number info.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>The IANA IPP Registry doesn't show it to be deprecated currently. I don't have any objections to deprecating it, but I am aware of some driver systems that are using IPP as a replacement for SNMP, but they still depend on 1284 Device ID for driver matching, and taking this away from them would cause them to look elsewhere. Then again, we are deprecating, not obsoleting, so it is still "around".</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>- Ira<br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>(permanent) PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434</font></i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 12:05 PM Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@msweet.org" target="_blank">msweet@msweet.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Ira,<br>
<br>
I don't see any mention of SERIALNUMBER or SN in 5107.2 - I thought that just standardized the COMMAND SET or CMD values in the device ID?!?<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> Although IEEE 1284 Device ID does allow a keyword for a serial number,<br>
> the PWG 5107.2-2010 standard ABNF does NOT allow serial number in a<br>
> conformant Device ID string.<br>
> <br>
> May be in the wild, but not something relevant for IPP interoperability.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> - Ira<br>
> <br>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
> Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br>
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
> Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG<br>
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br>
> <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
> <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
> mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
> (permanent) PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 10:30 AM Michael Sweet via ipp <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Smith,<br>
> <br>
> > On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Hi Mike,<br>
> ><br>
> > No objections to adding this but a few thoughts:<br>
> ><br>
> > - PII concerns?<br>
> <br>
> Not directly - this identifies the printer, not an individual. If the value was propagated outside of IPP with other personal information it might be used to identify someone ("Mike" printed to a printer with serial number 12345678, it must be Mike Sweet and not Mike Jones). But this is purely informational from the Printer to the Client, for maintenance/support purposes.<br>
> <br>
> > - Overlap with the key/value pairs provided by "printer-device-id" - the "SN" key isn't standardized but is out there...<br>
> <br>
> Last time I checked (but I no longer have a copy...) IEEE-1284 defines SERIALNUMBER (official abbreviation SN, also SER and SERN in the wild) to hold this. But "printer-device-id" isn't something we want in the long term (only needed for drivers) and implementation of the serial number in the device ID is spotty at best...<br>
> <br>
> ________________________<br>
> Michael Sweet<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> ipp mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><br>
<br>
________________________<br>
Michael Sweet<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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