attachment-0002
<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Still seems like the semantic model should avoid concrete mappings where possible, otherwise the doc could undergo needless revisions - you could have an abstract operation called "enumerateTransforms" that would return a list made up of Pwg transform types, some of these would map to mime, some wouldn't - the current draft assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to any thing in the output list - that may not be the case<br><br><br></div><div><br>On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi Randy,<br><br>My two cents.<br><br>We *always* transform one or more documents into<br>some different one or more documents.<br><br>So - for everything *but* natural language transforms,<br>we have to keep using the IPP and PWG SM universal<br>
choice of document-format as IANA MIME type.<br><br>For the particular named transform(s) for natural<br>language, script, transliteration, etc., we probably<br>need new first-class properties that strictly conform<br>to the IETF LTRU specs (effectively input and output<br>
language tags w/ IETF-approved ornaments).<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Randy Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rturner@amalfisystems.com">rturner@amalfisystems.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Yeah, I was about to reply that I've never seen a mime tag specifying natural language...</div><div><br></div><div>This was my only issue with the current transform draft - we may want to treat "what" is being transformed as a higher layer abstraction, removing any concrete mappings</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>R.<br><br><br></div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div><br>On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi,<br><br>This needs some major thought and discussion.<br><br>The current IETF standards around language tags<br>allow description of script and many other dimensions<br>
besides "natural language" (US English).<br>
<br>I'm not sure of the standardization status of language<br>tags on MIME types, but the PWG *definitely* should<br>NOT be inventing this home brew.<br><br>I'd rather use first class attributes for complex language,<br>
script, transliteration, etc. transformations.<br><br>We need advice here from the IETF LTRU (Language<br>Tag Registry Update) WG chairs and editors.<br><br>There IS work-in-progress in IETF LTRU WG for <br>language tag translation-request extensions.<br>
<br>MIME Types proper should be reserved for document<br>formats, NOT for document metadata (like language<br>tags).<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br><br clear="all">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><div style="display:inline">
</div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Michael Sweet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Randy,<div><br></div><div>MIME media types can include parameters; we'd just need to extend the current definitions of the types we care about to include a "language" parameter.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Randy Turner wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>How would I specify I wanted a document transformed from UK English to French using Mime types ?<br>
<br><br></div><div><br>On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite">
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Randy,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">The rationale for these ops is to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations. To resolve the "from" and "to" mapping issue one side of the mapping is fixed based on the op. The formats are defined as Mime types reusing the definition from print and scan. I am unaware of any constraints as to what a “format” can be since the Mime value is qualified. The DocumentFormatWKV simple type (PwgWellKnownValues.xsd) has some values listed. I expect the list to be expanded during the Transform Service discussions. The “MimeExtensionPattern” permits any valid Mime value to be used as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pete<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Email: <a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Voice: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" value="+15852658755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">FAX: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" value="+15852657441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">M/S 128-25E</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="color:#1f497d"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Randy Turner [mailto:<a href="mailto:rturner@amalfisystems.com" target="_blank">rturner@amalfisystems.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 19, 2012 9:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter<br><b>Cc:</b> <<a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Pete<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Regarding the "ListInputFormat/ListOutputFormat" operations in the transform service definition...is the rationale for these ops to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If so, where are these formats defined? And are any constraints as to what a "format" can be?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Randy<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:11 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Agenda:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">1. Identify Minute Taker</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">2. Approval of <span style="color:#1f497d">previous </span>minutes </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><<a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1f497d">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf</span></a>> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">3. Agenda bashing </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">4. Compile list of named transforms</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5. Discuss recent changes to PWG Schema for named transforms</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">6. Review latest Transform Service specification<br>
<span style="color:#1f497d"><<a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf</a>> </span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">7. Next Steps</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Email: <a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="color:#1f497d"><br>
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<div>________________________________________________________________________</div><div>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</div></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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