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<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>Never mind - I&#39;ve gone into the weeds.<br><br></div>I didn&#39;t mean to infix the &lt;service&gt; at all.  I meant to infix the<br></div>property of Hardcopy (or Scanned).<br>
<br></div>I&#39;ve run afoul of naming conventions in SM operations...<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094<br>Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline">
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Zehler, Peter <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I thought that was the original intention.  We just needed to insure the operation parameters and the associated document attributes are consistent across all
 the services.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">See PWG <a href="tel:5108.01-2011" value="+15108012011" target="_blank">5108.01-2011</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Table 77 MFD Common Operations and Antecedents<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Table 78 Basic MFD Interface Requests and Responses<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">section 7.3.1.1 Add&lt;service&gt;HardcopyDocument<u></u><u></u></span></p><div class="im">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Impact&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

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</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Email:
<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Voice: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" value="+15852658755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">FAX: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" value="+15852657441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">M/S 128-25E</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Paul Tykodi [mailto:<a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com" target="_blank">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> &#39;Ira McDonald&#39;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a>; &#39;Michael Sweet&#39;; Zehler, Peter<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [MFD] [IPP] Don&#39;t redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi Ira,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Following your logic, should we consider maintaining AddHardcopyDocument as the top level in the SM tree and then expand the model with Add&lt;RelevantPWGDefinedService&gt;Document
 at the next level in the model for each service that can support hardcopy document input?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">/Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">--</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Paul Tykodi<br>
Principal Consultant<br>
TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC<br>
<br>
Tel/Fax: <a href="tel:603-343-1820" value="+16033431820" target="_blank">603-343-1820</a><br>
Mobile:  <a href="tel:603-866-0712" value="+16038660712" target="_blank">603-866-0712</a><br>
E-mail:  <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com" target="_blank">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">WWW: 
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.tykodi.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">http://www.tykodi.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href="mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd-bounces@pwg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter; Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">
mfd@pwg.org</a>; Michael Sweet<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MFD] [IPP] Don&#39;t redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Which I think implies that I&#39;d like to rename AddHardcopyDocument to<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">AddScanDocument.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ira McDonald &lt;<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">At the risk of adding confusion...<br>
<br>
We speak of submitting Jobs with document data by reference (URI)<br>
or by value (attached).  <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Why not just add &quot;by scan (local scanner)&quot;.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">What I don&#39;t like about the term &quot;Hardcopy Document Object&quot; is that
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the word Scan or Scanner isn&#39;t there, but this is always the source.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">PS - I dislike putting titlecase prefixes on Document Object or Job<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Object - it muddies readability.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  <a href="tel:734-944-0094" target="_blank">
734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  <a href="tel:906-494-2434" target="_blank">
906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Zehler, Peter &lt;<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Mike,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Well, I guess I’ll be quiet now except to say it would be a good time to describe the attributes
 and constraints on all three types of Documents. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Pete</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Impact&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Email:
<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Voice:
<a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">FAX:
<a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><br>

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</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:navy">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@msweet.org" target="_blank">msweet@msweet.org</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:14 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">
mfd@pwg.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] Don&#39;t redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pete,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I guess we are in violent agreement.  One comment below.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2013-08-06, at 12:54 PM, &quot;Zehler, Peter&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is the difference between a Hardcopy Document and a Hardcopy Document /Object/. We need to define the latter and not the former.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&lt;PZ&gt;I see no subclasses of Documents in the PWG Semantic Model or IPP.  Whether a document is added
 to a Job by value, by reference, or by reference to the output of the scanner subunit, it is still just a Document object. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am not suggesting a subclass of document.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We already categorize documents as &quot;referenced&quot; and &quot;with attached document data&quot;. For hardcopy documents we would have a Document Object containing description attributes/elements
 that identify the source and properties of the hardcopy document.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I chose to call it a &quot;Hardcopy Document Object&quot; as opposed to a &quot;Document Object with Associated Hardcopy Document Input Elements&quot;.  How the digital representation is stored and
 when exactly the document is scanned are, IMHO, implementation specific.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">_____________<br>
Michael Sweet</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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