IPP> notification methods

IPP> notification methods

IPP> notification methods

Zehler, Peter Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com
Mon Aug 14 07:42:23 EDT 2000


Carl,

I do not claim that INDP will work with every network configuration.  That
is why I want to see a "registration" event sent as soon as an INDP
registration is made.  I do claim that a machine readable notification is
useful, as is a human readable form.  I claim that a "real time"
notification mechanism is useful, as is a store-and-forward notification
mechanism.  I also claim there are network configurations in the home, on
the road and in the office that allow INDP.

There are configurations where mailto notification will not work.  My mother
can use IPP to print to my home printer.  From her point of view she just
presses the print button.  She does not have an email account.  For her,
mailto would not be an option.

Pete

				Peter Zehler
				XEROX
				Xerox Architecture Center
				Email: Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com
				Voice:    (716) 265-8755
				FAX:      (716) 265-8792 
				US Mail: Peter Zehler
				        Xerox Corp.
				        800 Phillips Rd.
				        M/S 139-05A
				        Webster NY, 14580-9701



-----Original Message-----
From: kugler at us.ibm.com [mailto:kugler at us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:57 PM
To: Zehler, Peter
Cc: jkm at underscore.com; ipp at pwg.org
Subject: RE: IPP> notification methods




Peter-

I once tried to run a server on an ATT Worldnet dial-up account.  It just
didn't work.  Their T&Cs say
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
 Additional Rules of Member Conduct                                        
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
    1.  not use your AT&T WorldNet Service dial-up connection to host a    
      dedicated Internet server site.                                      
                                                                           
                                                                           



It's easy enough for them to prevent you from running a server, simply by
blocking incoming connections.  Whether or not they were actually blocking
me, or something else was wrong, I don't know.  Anyway, there are likely to
be other problems.  For example, (from the DSL Reports knowledge base,
http://www.dsl-reports.com/information/kb/):
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
 private ip                                                                
 Some DSL (or cable) networks may provide you a private IP address. The    
 good news is that probably doesn't change, and is secure. The bad news is 
 that it isn't a real IP so nobody on the internet can reach you, although 
 you can reach everyone. This is essentially NAT implemented by the        
 provider on a grand scale.                                                
                                                                           
                                                                           

                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
 NAT                                                                       
 NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is a technique for        
 translating one set of IP addresses, often private, to another set, often 
 public. Compare NAT to socks -- NAT is often implemented on a router or   
 specialized NAT box, although it is equally commonly implemented on a PC, 
 running NAT software.                                                     
                                                                           
 NAT is a very flexible technique, but in the DSL world you will           
 interested (or maybe using) just one implementation: NAT setup to allow a 
 single public IP address to be simultaneously reused by multiple internal 
 PCs with private IP addresses. To the outside world, you appear to have   
 only a single IP, but you actually have many devices 'behind' this IP     
 address.                                                                  
                                                                           
 Note, you don't get something for nothing here! With NAT, as with socks,  
 incoming connections can be problematic to setup, requiring configuration 
 on your NAT capable router, or NAT software, to assign (map) external     
 services (web, FTP and so on) through to specific internal machines. Many 
 NAT capable devices or software are not sufficiently flexible to cope     
 with all requirements and software you may have, and some 'NAT            
 unfriendly' protocols break, even if NAT maps them correctly!             
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           



Certainly you can get multiple fixed IP addresses, etc., if you're willing
to pay for it. The question is:  is the marginal utility of INDP
notifications sufficient to justify the cost of these services.

     -Carl




"Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com> on 08/11/2000 10:01:30 AM

To:   Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM at IBMUS, jkm at underscore.com
cc:   ipp at pwg.org
Subject:  RE: IPP> notification methods



Carl,

I don't know who your ISP is but mine has no control over a server running
on my host.  They do control the length of my IP lease.  In my case the
lease lasts hours.  Certainly enough time for a notification.  (Not enough
time to host a business...they charge for that.)

I can have a fixed IP address and I can have multiple IP addresses if I so
desire.  The use of INDP assumes programmatic interactions in near real
time.  If I build an application that relies on this it may well impose
requirements on system/network configurations as well as influence the
components I buy.

I see a real need for programmatic as well as end user notification.  We
should be specifying and building enabling technologies.  Our role should
be
enable policy not to enforce it.

Pete



                    Peter Zehler
                    XEROX
                    Xerox Architecture Center
                    Email: Peter.Zehler at usa.xerox.com
                    Voice:    (716) 265-8755
                    FAX:      (716) 265-8792
                    US Mail: Peter Zehler
                            Xerox Corp.
                            800 Phillips Rd.
                            M/S 139-05A
                            Webster NY, 14580-9701



-----Original Message-----
From: kugler at us.ibm.com [mailto:kugler at us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:25 PM
To: jkm at underscore.com
Cc: ipp at pwg.org
Subject: Re: IPP> notification methods




It's equally impractical in the road warrior scenario.  Most ISPs won't let
you run a server unless you pay them for the privilege.

SOHO is another problem.  Windows Connection Sharing and other network
address translation schemes are often used so that multiple hosts on a LAN
can all reach the Internet through a single IP address allocated by the
ISP.  Of course, ISPs will be happy to sell you more addresses, for a
monthly fee...

So, it's impractical for enterprise, SOHO, and dial-up.  What does that
leave?  Possibly some university networks (and Lexmark ;-) );  I can't
think of much else.

     -Carl



Jay Martin <jkm at underscore.com> on 08/04/2000 02:53:08 PM

Please respond to jkm at underscore.com

To:   Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM at IBMUS
cc:   ipp at pwg.org
Subject:  Re: IPP> notification methods



Carl,

Ah, now you've caught my attention...  ;-)

> Me and 99% of other end users in the real world.  INDP over the Internet
is
> not impossible, just impractical.

We must assume your term "end users in the real world" refers to
enterprise environments, right?

That is, if the "real world" implies a usage scenario describing a
"Road Warrior sitting in her hotel room wanting to print a document
at a local copy shop", then in your opinion can INDP satisfy those
99% of "real world" users?  Or is it equally impractical as in the
enterprise environment?

     ...jay







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