IPP Mail Archive: RE: IPP> notification methods

IPP Mail Archive: RE: IPP> notification methods

RE: IPP> notification methods

From: don@lexmark.com
Date: Fri Aug 11 2000 - 14:59:41 EDT

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    Sounds like something MA Bell would do. My ISP does NOT.

    * Don Wright don@lexmark.com *
    * Chair, Printer Working Group *
    * Chair, IEEE MSC *
    * *
    * Director, Strategic & Technical Alliances *
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    kugler%us.ibm.com@interlock.lexmark.com on 08/11/2000 12:56:47 PM

    To: Peter.Zehler%usa.xerox.com@interlock.lexmark.com
    cc: jkm%underscore.com@interlock.lexmark.com,
          ipp%pwg.org@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Don Wright/Lex/Lexmark)
    Subject: RE: IPP> notification methods


    I once tried to run a server on an ATT Worldnet dial-up account. It just
    didn't work. Their T&Cs say

     Additional Rules of Member Conduct

        1. not use your AT&T WorldNet Service dial-up connection to host a
          dedicated Internet server site.

    It's easy enough for them to prevent you from running a server, simply by
    blocking incoming connections. Whether or not they were actually blocking
    me, or something else was wrong, I don't know. Anyway, there are likely to
    be other problems. For example, (from the DSL Reports knowledge base,

     private ip
     Some DSL (or cable) networks may provide you a private IP address. The
     good news is that probably doesn't change, and is secure. The bad news is
     that it isn't a real IP so nobody on the internet can reach you, although
     you can reach everyone. This is essentially NAT implemented by the
     provider on a grand scale.

     NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is a technique for
     translating one set of IP addresses, often private, to another set, often
     public. Compare NAT to socks -- NAT is often implemented on a router or
     specialized NAT box, although it is equally commonly implemented on a PC,
     running NAT software.

     NAT is a very flexible technique, but in the DSL world you will
     interested (or maybe using) just one implementation: NAT setup to allow a
     single public IP address to be simultaneously reused by multiple internal
     PCs with private IP addresses. To the outside world, you appear to have
     only a single IP, but you actually have many devices 'behind' this IP

     Note, you don't get something for nothing here! With NAT, as with socks,
     incoming connections can be problematic to setup, requiring configuration
     on your NAT capable router, or NAT software, to assign (map) external
     services (web, FTP and so on) through to specific internal machines. Many
     NAT capable devices or software are not sufficiently flexible to cope
     with all requirements and software you may have, and some 'NAT
     unfriendly' protocols break, even if NAT maps them correctly!

    Certainly you can get multiple fixed IP addresses, etc., if you're willing
    to pay for it. The question is: is the marginal utility of INDP
    notifications sufficient to justify the cost of these services.


    "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@usa.xerox.com> on 08/11/2000 10:01:30 AM

    To: Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, jkm@underscore.com
    cc: ipp@pwg.org
    Subject: RE: IPP> notification methods


    I don't know who your ISP is but mine has no control over a server running
    on my host. They do control the length of my IP lease. In my case the
    lease lasts hours. Certainly enough time for a notification. (Not enough
    time to host a business...they charge for that.)

    I can have a fixed IP address and I can have multiple IP addresses if I so
    desire. The use of INDP assumes programmatic interactions in near real
    time. If I build an application that relies on this it may well impose
    requirements on system/network configurations as well as influence the
    components I buy.

    I see a real need for programmatic as well as end user notification. We
    should be specifying and building enabling technologies. Our role should
    enable policy not to enforce it.


                        Peter Zehler
                        Xerox Architecture Center
                        Email: Peter.Zehler@usa.xerox.com
                        Voice: (716) 265-8755
                        FAX: (716) 265-8792
                        US Mail: Peter Zehler
                                Xerox Corp.
                                800 Phillips Rd.
                                M/S 139-05A
                                Webster NY, 14580-9701

    -----Original Message-----
    From: kugler@us.ibm.com [mailto:kugler@us.ibm.com]
    Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:25 PM
    To: jkm@underscore.com
    Cc: ipp@pwg.org
    Subject: Re: IPP> notification methods

    It's equally impractical in the road warrior scenario. Most ISPs won't let
    you run a server unless you pay them for the privilege.

    SOHO is another problem. Windows Connection Sharing and other network
    address translation schemes are often used so that multiple hosts on a LAN
    can all reach the Internet through a single IP address allocated by the
    ISP. Of course, ISPs will be happy to sell you more addresses, for a
    monthly fee...

    So, it's impractical for enterprise, SOHO, and dial-up. What does that
    leave? Possibly some university networks (and Lexmark ;-) ); I can't
    think of much else.


    Jay Martin <jkm@underscore.com> on 08/04/2000 02:53:08 PM

    Please respond to jkm@underscore.com

    To: Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS
    cc: ipp@pwg.org
    Subject: Re: IPP> notification methods


    Ah, now you've caught my attention... ;-)

    > Me and 99% of other end users in the real world. INDP over the Internet
    > not impossible, just impractical.

    We must assume your term "end users in the real world" refers to
    enterprise environments, right?

    That is, if the "real world" implies a usage scenario describing a
    "Road Warrior sitting in her hotel room wanting to print a document
    at a local copy shop", then in your opinion can INDP satisfy those
    99% of "real world" users? Or is it equally impractical as in the
    enterprise environment?


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