[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

[MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22

Randy Turner rturner at amalfisystems.com
Mon Mar 19 20:10:59 UTC 2012


I thought you said earlier that those operations list the possible "froms" and "tos" ?



On Mar 19, 2012, at 12:56 PM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:

> Randy,
> The current draft does not assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to anything in the output list.  The “ListOutputDocumentFormats” lists the available output document formats for a single specified input document format.  The “ListInputDocumentFormats” lists the available input document formats for a single specified Output document format.  The output/input document format can be specified and either a “DocumentFormat” element with an optional “DocumentFormatVersion” or a “DocumentFormatDetails” element group.
> Pete
>  
>  
> Peter Zehler
> 
> Xerox Research Center Webster
> Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
> Voice: (585) 265-8755
> FAX: (585) 265-7441
> US Mail: Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> 800 Phillips Rd.
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> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>  
> From: mfd-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:mfd-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Randy Turner
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 3:29 PM
> To: Ira McDonald
> Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
> Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22
>  
> Still seems like the semantic model should avoid concrete mappings where possible, otherwise the doc could undergo needless revisions - you could have an abstract operation called "enumerateTransforms" that would return a list made up of Pwg transform types, some of these would map to mime, some wouldn't - the current draft assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to any thing in the output list - that may not be the case
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Randy,
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> We *always* transform one or more documents into
> some different one or more documents.
> 
> So - for everything *but* natural language transforms,
> we have to keep using the IPP and PWG SM universal
> choice of document-format as IANA MIME type.
> 
> For the particular named transform(s) for natural
> language, script, transliteration, etc., we probably
> need new first-class properties that strictly conform
> to the IETF LTRU specs (effectively input and output
> language tags w/ IETF-approved ornaments).
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Randy Turner <rturner at amalfisystems.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I was about to reply that I've never seen a mime tag specifying natural language...
>  
> This was my only issue with the current transform draft - we may want to treat "what" is being transformed as a higher layer abstraction, removing any concrete mappings
>  
> R.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This needs some major thought and discussion.
> 
> The current IETF standards around language tags
> allow description of script and many other dimensions
> besides "natural language" (US English).
> 
> I'm not sure of the standardization status of language
> tags on MIME types, but the PWG *definitely* should
> NOT be inventing this home brew.
> 
> I'd rather use first class attributes for complex language,
> script, transliteration, etc. transformations.
> 
> We need advice here from the IETF LTRU (Language
> Tag Registry Update) WG chairs and editors.
> 
> There IS work-in-progress in IETF LTRU WG for 
> language tag translation-request extensions.
> 
> MIME Types proper should be reserved for document
> formats, NOT for document metadata (like language
> tags).
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
> Randy,
>  
> MIME media types can include parameters; we'd just need to extend the current definitions of the types we care about to include a "language" parameter.
>  
>  
> On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Randy Turner wrote:
> 
> 
> How would I specify I wanted a document transformed from UK English to French using Mime types ?
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:
> 
> Randy,
> The rationale for these ops is to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations.  To resolve the "from" and "to" mapping issue one side of the mapping is fixed based on the op.  The formats are defined as Mime types reusing the definition from print and scan.  I am unaware of any constraints as to what a “format” can be since the Mime value is qualified.  The DocumentFormatWKV simple type (PwgWellKnownValues.xsd) has some values listed.  I expect the list to be expanded during the Transform Service discussions.  The “MimeExtensionPattern” permits any valid Mime value to be used as well.
> Pete
>  
>  
> Peter Zehler
> 
> Xerox Research Center Webster
> Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
> Voice: (585) 265-8755
> FAX: (585) 265-7441
> US Mail: Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> 800 Phillips Rd.
> M/S 128-25E
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>  
>  
>  
> From: Randy Turner [mailto:rturner at amalfisystems.com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:41 AM
> To: Zehler, Peter
> Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
> Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22
>  
> Hi Pete
> Regarding the "ListInputFormat/ListOutputFormat" operations in the transform service definition...is the rationale for these ops to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations?
>  
> If so, where are these formats defined? And are any constraints as to what a "format" can be?
>  
> Thanks
> Randy
>  
> 
> 
> On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:11 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:
> 
> Agenda:
>  
>  
> 1. Identify Minute Taker
>  
> 2. Approval of previous minutes
> <ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf>
>  
> 3. Agenda bashing
>  
> 4. Compile list of named transforms
>  
> 5. Discuss recent changes to PWG Schema for named transforms
>  
> 6. Review latest Transform Service specification
>           <ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf>
>  
> 7. Next Steps
>  
>  
>  
> 
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>  
>  
>  
> Peter Zehler
> 
> Xerox Research Center Webster
> Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
> Voice: (585) 265-8755
> FAX: (585) 265-7441
> US Mail: Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> 800 Phillips Rd.
> M/S 128-25E
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