Hello Miyazawa-san,
You wrote the following on February 06, 2003 n response to Elliott Bradshaw:
> Thank you for your constructive response.
> we want to pick up #3.
Elliott Bradshaw wrote :
> ...
> A concern about requiring landscape support is that the
> amount of RAM memory could go up quite a bit.
> ...
> We wonder, though,
> if there is a solution in how we write the spec, so that we
> don't end up requiring large amounts of memory in the printer.
>> There are several possibilities:
> ...
> 3. Specify that landscape is supported, but above some
> printer-defined memory limit may resort to dropping images,
> re-laying out pages, or some other non-WYSIWYG presentation.
I, also, think that #3 is the way to proceed. The CSS Print Profile
Specification states in the conformance section
(http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/CSS-Print.html#section-conforma
nce):
2. The inability of a PP-UA to implement part of this
specification due to the limitations of a particular
device (e.g., a PP-UA cannot render colors on a mono-
chrome page) shall not imply non-conformance.
I believe that a given printer's inability to support landscaping is in the
very nature of the device, i.e., it is too limited in memory to rotate
images, in the same manner that a monochrome printer cannot render colors or
another printer cannot print in a requested font-family because it doesn't
have that font. Therefore, a printer without enough memory rotate a page
can still claim to be a conforming printer.
I, therefore, suggest that we add landscape to the list of enhanced layout
values of the size property with the footnote that the PP-UA may ignore the
value landscape if it lacks the memory to support landscape printing.
Jim Bigelow,
Editor: XHTML-Print & CSS Print Profile
IEEE-ISTO, Printer Working Group
http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print
Hewlett-Packard
208-396-2068
jim.bigelow at hp.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Miyazawa Shunsaku [mailto:Miyazawa.Shunsaku at exc.epson.co.jp]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:28 PM
> To: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1);
> 'ElliottBradshaw at oaktech.com'; don at lexmark.com> Cc: 'kazuyuki Murata'; 'Kenji Hisatomi'
> Subject: RE: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print
> and CSS Prin t Pr ofile re leased
>>> Hello all,
>> Thank you for your constructive response.
> we want to pick up #3.
> There is always the problem of "availability of rotation"
> around printer especialiy without PC, you know. So we think
> that it is appropriate to write the caution in spec, because
> the caution is significant to care the problem by content
> creators and DTV/reception devices.
>> In addition, #2 is impossible. There is no function to request
> the printer availability in IEEE1394 printersubunit.
>> Best regards,
> Shunsaku Miyazawa
>>> -----Original Message-----
> From: ElliottBradshaw at oaktech.com [mailto:ElliottBradshaw at oaktech.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:11 AM
> To: Miyazawa Shunsaku
> Cc: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1); don at lexmark.com> Subject: Re: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print
> and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
>>>> Hello Miyazawa-san,
>> Jim Bigelow, Don Wright, and I have been considering the
> question of landscape pages for DTV support (which is now the
> same as Enhanced Layout) in XHTML-Print.
>> Currently a printer can optionally support landscape pages,
> and if a control protocol such as UPnP or Bluetooth is
> involved, the printer can tell the client whether or not
> landscape is supported.
>> A concern about requiring landscape support is that the
> amount of RAM memory could go up quite a bit. In fact there
> is no practical way to calculate how much memory a printer
> needs to have if it is to handle every landscape page.
>> The reason is that images will need to be read into memory
> completely so that the printer can turn them 90 degrees. For
> web content, this is not too bad--perhaps a few megabytes.
> But for photo content, each image could require a lot of
> memory. A page with four 5MPixel photos might need 60 MB of
> RAM! This would have a meaningful impact on the cost of the printer.
>> We are guessing that your interest is because future TVs will
> have a wide screen format, so that landscape better matches
> the image. Also, I realize that the images a TV would print
> would usually not be of photo resolution. We wonder, though,
> if there is a solution in how we write the spec, so that we
> don't end up requiring large amounts of memory in the printer.
>> There are several possibilities:
>> 1. Leave it as it is...landscape is not mandatory but the
> client can discover and use it if a printer has it.
>> 2. Pick some arbitrary amount of memory in the printer and
> specify that landscape support is only guaranteed to work for
> pages with less than that much image data.
>> 3. Specify that landscape is supported, but above some
> printer-defined memory limit may resort to dropping images,
> re-laying out pages, or some other non-WYSIWYG presentation.
>> #2 and #3 are both somewhat at odds with the rest of the
> specification, which so far does not have any numeric limits.
>> We wonder if there is a way to solve this for DTVs using the
> current approach. In the 1394 scheme you are defining, is
> there a way for the DTV to get additional information about
> the printer? You could add paramaters to tell it not only
> whether landscape is supported, but also how much memory is available.
>> I think there will always be scenarios in which landscape
> mode is either not available or overflows internal memory.
> So it seems that a DTV client should have some capability to
> print to protrait pages, even if they don't look as good as landscape.
>> Your comments please!
>> Best regards,
> Elliott
>>>>> ------------------------------------------
> Elliott Bradshaw
> Director, Software Engineering
> Oak Technology Imaging Group
> 781 638-7534
>>>>>> Miyazawa Shunsaku
>> <Miyazawa.Shunsaku at exc.ep To:
> "'xp at pwg.org'" <xp at pwg.org>
> son.co.jp> cc:
>> Sent by: owner-xp at pwg.org Subject:
> FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of
>> XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
>>> 01/28/2003 04:35 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Hello all ,
>> Thanks for adding DTV enhancement set to the extended layout
> enhancement . I look over current CSS Print Enhanced ,so I
> recognize I had forgotten to request some CSS values as CSS
> Print Enhanced.
>> DTV request follows CSS values , a few more
> 1. "right" value for "text-align" property.
> 2. "landscape" value for "size" property.
> 3. "lower latin" and "upper latin" values for "
> list-style-type" property.
>> So, we would like to add these CSS values as CSS Print Enhanced.
>>> Shunsaku Miyazawa
> SEIKO EPSON
>>> -----Original Message-----
> From: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1) [mailto:jim.bigelow at hp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:59 AM
> To: 'xp at pwg.org'
> Subject: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS
> Print Profile re leased
>>> Hello,
>> The latest version of the specs, dated January 23, 2003, are
> now on the PWG web site.
>> These specifications are based on the January 7, 2002
> versions, see http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0146.html.>> The specifications
> - XHTML-Print
> (http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/XHTML-Print.html)
, and
- CSS Print Profile
(http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/HTML-Version/CSS-Print.html),
are available for review from the XHTML-Print Working Group Home page
(http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/wg-home.html).
Versions with changes marked, can been seen by visiting the current spec and
then selected the "Markup Version".
Changes for this version of the specifications:
1. The editorial changes noted in http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0168.html
2. The editorial corrections noted in
http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0177.html
3. DTV enhancement set added to the extended layout enhancement set.
http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/minutes/Minutes-November-2002.html#dtv
4. Border-collapse property added to the extended layout enhancement set,
http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0128.html
5. Addition of Attribute Selectors: E[Attr] and E[Attr=val] to the extended
layout enhancement set, http://www.pwg.org/hypermail/xp/0102.html. Adjacent
selectors not added.
Jim Bigelow,
Editor: XHTML-Print & CSS Print Profile
IEEE-ISTO, Printer Working Group
http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print
Hewlett-Packard
208-396-2068
jim.bigelow at hp.com