IFX Mail Archive: RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is IPPFAX a Devi

IFX Mail Archive: RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is IPPFAX a Devi

RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is IPPFAX a Device Protocol or an Electronic Document Exchange Protocol?]

From: Harry Lewis (harryl@us.ibm.com)
Date: Fri Jun 06 2003 - 09:02:19 EDT

  • Next message: McDonald, Ira: "IFX> FW: [IETF IFAX] WG Last call for draft-ietf-fax-esmtp-conneg-08.t xt"

    At least at one point, there was also the notion of QUALDOCs as a
    "driverless" paradigm. No need to reopen the debate... just embellishing
    the stated history.

    I don't see the black/white - either/or that Tom portrays (if Sender
    doesn't query "media-ready", then the IPPFAX protocol is an Electronic
    Document Transfer Protocol... if Sender cares for certain that the
    document was correctly imaged then having Sender query "media-ready" makes
    sense...).

    Scaling is a FEATURE intended to facilitate a wider range of
    compatibility. We should allow this to work IPPFAX will be most useful if
    we enable SYSTEMS that perform the desired function. The PERCEPTION of a
    sheet going in the scanner and simultaneously coming out on a remote
    printer is, of course, just that... a PERCEPTION.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Harry Lewis
    Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
    http://www.pwg.org
    IBM Printing Systems
    http://www.ibm.com/printers
    303-924-5337
    ----------------------------------------------



    "Wagner,William" <WWagner@NetSilicon.com>
    Sent by: owner-ifx@pwg.org
    06/05/2003 06:40 PM

    To
    "Hastings, Tom N" <hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com>, "Gail Songer"
    <gail.songer@peerless.com>
    cc
    <ifx@pwg.org>
    Subject
    RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is IPPFAX a Device Protocol or an Electronic
    Document Exchange Protocol?]






    Although I have no strong feelings on this, I recall several thoughts from
    "the early days" of this activity. Granted that much has happened since
    and these ideas may no longer be germain, some vestage may explain why
    the medi-ready requirement existed.
     
    1. It was called QualDocs, not FAX. It was not intended to replicate
    facsimile, but was to implement peoples perception of FAX (a reliable,
    secure, sure way to "send a document over the wire" ) without the
    defficiencies of existing FAX ( speed, quality, flexibility). The fact
    that traditional fax is not necesarily reliable nor secure nor sure did
    not mean that QualDocs could have the same problems. The notion was that
    FAX was well established and prevalent and that there would need to be a
    compelling advanage to QualDocs for it to be accepted.
     
    2. The "sure" perception was that as an input sheet is being scanned in
    the scanner, a facsimile of that sheet is comming out of the receiver.
    This perception would be addressed by determining whether there was proper
    media ready, and signalling when the last sheet was correctly printed.
    Presumably, if the tranmission would be stored rather than printed, the
    user would be notified, would have the option of cancelling and would have
    the option to ask for an asynchronous notification when the document was
    printed.
     
    Bill Wagner

                     -----Original Message-----
                     From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]

                     Sent: Thu 6/5/2003 7:50 PM
                     To: Gail Songer
                     Cc: ifx@pwg.org
                     Subject: RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is IPPFAX a Device
    Protocol or an Electronic Document Exchange Protocol?]
     
     
                     Gail,
     
                     Sounds like there is growing consensus to get rid of the
    "media-ready" Receiver attribute in IPPFAX and get rid of the
    RECOMMENDATION that the Sender query it. This makes IPPFAX even simpler.
     
                     Also with the choice media type, there is yet another
    reason for the Sender not to query the Receiver's "media-ready" attribute.
     The Sender can assume that the choice a4 or letter is supported for
    IPPFAX and doesn't even have to query the Receiver's "media-supported"
    attribute.
     
                     Tom

                                     -----Original Message-----
                                     From: Gail Songer
    [mailto:gail.songer@peerless.com]
                                     Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 08:12
                                     To: Hastings, Tom N
                                     Cc: ifx@pwg.org
                                     Subject: RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is
    IPPFAX a Device Protocol or an Electronic Document Exchange Protocol?]
     
     

                                     Hi Tom,

     

                                     I’ve been mulling this topic and I
    believe that media-ready was required because we were going to require the
    client to format the job based on the size of the paper that could be
    printed (sender makes right).

     

                                     However, now that we allow scaling and
    that we are focusing repositories, maybe this requirement can be lifted.

     

                                     Gail Songer

                                     Peerless Systems Corp

                                     gsonger@peerless.com

     

                                     -----Original Message-----
                                     From: Hastings, Tom N
    [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]
                                     Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 3:06 PM
                                     To: Gail Songer
                                     Cc: ifx@pwg.org
                                     Subject: RE: IFX> Media-Ready [and is
    IPPFAX a Device Protocol or an Electronic Document Exchange Protocol?]

     

                                     Gail,

     

                                     I suspect that the reason that the IPPFAX
    spec says that the Receiver MUST support "media-ready" was because the
    spec says that the IPPFAX Sender SHOULD query the "media-ready" Printer
    attribute.

     

                                     I also think that the mind set of IPPFAX
    had been a single Device, so that the fan-out to multiple devices wasn't
    even a consideration in being difficult to reflect the "media-ready"
    value(s) correctly. For example, the statement in the Introduction:

     

                                     "The target market for an IPPFAX receiver
    is a midrange imaging device that can support the minimum memory
    requirements that are required by the data format PDF/is, but the image
    format is structured in such a way that the Receiver is not required to
    include a disk or other permanent storage."

     

                                     On the other hand, the definition of
    Receiver is:

     

                                     "Receiver The Printer object that
    accepts IPPFAX protocol operations and receives the Document sent by the
    Sender. A Receiver offers the IPPFAX Print Service (by definition)."

     

                                     So the real question is:

     

                                     OK that the IPPFAX Sender not bother with
    querying "media-ready", but should send the IPPFAX PDF/is document whether
    the media is ready or not?

     

                                     If the Sender doesn't query
    "media-ready", then the IPPFAX protocol is an Electronic Document Transfer
    Protocol, i.e., get the bits from the Sender to the Receiver, rather than
    get the Quality Document Successfully Printed onto Paper Service. The
    mind set of the WG does shift from one paradigm to the other from time to
    time (and from place to place within the IPPFAX Protocol spec itself).

     

                                     As another example of this vacilation
    between defining a Device Protocol versus an Electronic Document Exchange
    Service, is the idea that the IPPGET notification is going to indicate
    whether the paper got printed OK. To me that means we are talking about
    getting the document successfully transferred to paper. Therefore, with
    that mind set, having the Sender query the "media-ready" makes a lot of
    sense if the Sending User cares about knowing for certain that the
    document was correctly imaged onto paper.

     

                                     Tom

     

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                     From: Gail Songer
    [mailto:gail.songer@peerless.com]
                                     Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 06:32
                                     To: ifx@pwg.org
                                     Subject: IFX> Media-Ready

                                                     At Wednesday’s telecom,
    we discovered that Media-Ready was Required in one spot and optional in
    another. Ira was of the opinion that it should be PROHIBIED.

     

                                                     Does anyone else have
    opinion (or remember why it was “Required”?)

     

     

     

                                                     Gail Songer

                                                     Peerless Systems Corp

                                                     gsonger@peerless.com

     






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